Michael Jackson Thread

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Michael Jackson Thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:56 pm

So Channel 4 have took the 4 hour doc and cut the first part down to 93minutes. I imagine they'll do the same to part two also. I'm assuming they've left all the lurid allegations in tact to make it as sensationalist as possible though :nono:

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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Bandit » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:34 pm

On a side note, it was pointed out Paris Jackson has a tattoo that says Applehead, so that's apparently something Michael just called people frequently and not a pet name only for James Safechuck.

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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:32 am

Exactly, I'm not buying a word of their lies because they've twisted the truth to make it seem sinister and something it wasn't. How they can sit there and recount that abuse without a single shred of anger and/or distress is telling also. Yet they sit there calmly, even smiling on occasions. I can't see how some folks are buying it as facts either. How channel 4 have edited it have made it even more sensationalistic and inflammatory just to cause uproar. The voice over guy sounded like he was faking getting choked up by it too.

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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by pixel » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:33 am

Michael Jackson was proven innocent in court and there are a ton of FBI files what was found during their investigation. It didn't clear up his public perception because, well, he was still a pretty eccentric dude.

The stories of the two men featured in "Leaving Neverland" have plenty of holes. I haven't seen either, but I haven't found any worthwhile criticisms about the factual integrity of "Surviving R. Kelly."

The verdict isn't in yet for R Kelly, but his previous behavior does lend weight to the allegations. Sure, he was found not guilty for having child pornography. But it's pretty difficult to rule otherwise if the victim won't testify. And his acquittal in another child pornography trial was granted only because of a bad search warrant.

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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Bandit » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:06 am

Yes, I think R. Kelly is guilty. He was on tape the first time and only got away because the girl refused to testify and her parents denied it was her (her father is still R. Kelly's bassist, and to this day which is disgusting.) And he tried to marry Aaliyah when she was 15 or 16. Plus he's been spotted by dozens of people hanging out around high schools talking to girls. He's made some great music, but he's a scumbag.

Michael I believe because all 4 accusers are (or their parents were) incredibly untrustworthy and would never win a legal or civil case. He's impossible to defend because he's literally the only man who has ever wanted to be around children for innocent reasons. But there's so many reasons why all four cases were lies. And I feel sorry for his children right now, they don't deserve this.

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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:05 am

I also have to agree that R Kelly is guilty. I don't believe he's a human trafficker/keeping women hostage, has a sex cult etc (ie the OTT allegations) but I do think he has had sex with under age girls. The marriage certificate to the 15 year old Aaliyah proves that. He was sexually abused for quite a number of years so that no doubt has deeply effected him in a lot of ways. If by chance he is found not guilty a judge has to order him to attend counselling etc. Him flying off the handle and crying wasn't a good look either. He should have remained calm and not come across as aggressive towards the interviewer (considering he's accused of physical abuse too I believe). So that video could be gold for a prosecutor.

As for Michael, he I believe has been unfairly drawn into the spotlight again. I too feel real sorry for his kids, the Jackson family and his Mom. Apparently I believe it was Marlon who said they've tried to keep this news away from her as she's in poor health sadly. These two guys if they were abused had years to go to proceed with these allegations and had real justice. Since in their words it's not about money, so why talk now?

I think they are making a mockery of real sexual abuse survivors and if they and the director are found to be lying then they should all make a public apology to Mikes kids, family and his Mom. The parents would have known if anything untoward was going on, they'd notice changes in their behaviour etc so they should have been more observant and protective of their kids. If they even sensed anything untoward was going on they should have immediately took their child away. But they seemed just as enthralled by him as their kids. I don't sense any sense of hatred towards MJ from either the two accusers or their family. Which just makes no logical sense whatsoever. So I think they and the director constructed this weird twisted fan fiction to try and extract money from MJs estate of which his kids are the beneficiaries. Plus Wade was a friend of the family so that again rings alarm bells. If you're so traumatised from being abused the last thing you'd do is still hang around the family. So yea Leaving Neverland is just a gigantic money grab and is attempting to destroy his legacy. That this isn't getting the reaction they hoped for is further proof not everyone is believing their untruths.

This is a good article

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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by pixel » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:04 am

I try to not get too upset about all the crap surrounding MJ, he is one of my favorite performers ever. It's the shittiest when people think I'm crazy that I doubt the accusers.

Anyway, here's this:



https://boingboing.net/2018/07/02/a-gro ... -shut.html

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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:34 pm




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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:34 pm

pixel wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:04 am
I try to not get too upset about all the crap surrounding MJ, he is one of my favorite performers ever. It's the shittiest when people think I'm crazy that I doubt the accusers.

Anyway, here's this:



https://boingboing.net/2018/07/02/a-gro ... -shut.html
I get real pissed off for the fact that some people are buying this all as fact, when both men are proven to be liars. One guy, if he is telling the truth, he has committed perjury, since he said that MJ never touched him and there's no evidence to suggest he did, apart from these outlandish accusations which he can't defend himself against. Now 11 more accusers have come forward and there's talk about exhuming MJ's body :nono: I mean if he was guilty of all this alleged abuse why didn't they all come forward when Chandler made his accusations and during the Arvizo case. It's all about the money at the end of the day. I guess the social media mob haven't learned from the Jussie Smollett deal where they believed everything he said which turned up to be...lies. When money's involved and we're talking potentially millions of dollars in this case, people will conduct any fanciful lies to get a piece of his estate, the more lurid and sensationalist the better.

As for the Simpsons episode being cancelled/removed :nono: they have to hold that same energy for other celebs if they are accused of BS allegations too. John Legend has also been spouting off about MJ now too (like he did R Kelly) but he's buddies with Harvey Weinstein and hasn't spoken out about him or denounced him publicly.

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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Bandit » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:37 pm


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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:44 am





https://mobile.twitter.com/MJisUnbreaka ... 0180113409

https://mobile.twitter.com/JusticeTrubl ... 4050563084

Quote from Grace his former nanny
He was trusting to the point of extreme naivete; always assuming the best intentions in everyone,” Rwaramba said of Jackson in the statement. “While he was far from perfect, in my over twelve years of living with Michael, knowing him and his lifestyle intimately, I never saw or experienced anything that led me to suspect that he was capable of child sexual abuse.”
MJs estate are suing HBO for $100m.

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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:46 am

Every night that I was with him, there was abuse'

In the documentary, the two men -- Robson, now 36, and Safechuck, now 41 – claimed they were each individually abused by the pop star, Robson beginning when he was 7-years-old and Safechuck beginning when he was 10.

"Once the abuse started within that first week, every night that I was with him, there was abuse. While my mother was you know, next door," Robson said in an interview with Oprah Winfrey titled "After Neverland," which directly followed the release of the documentary on HBO.





If Michael harmed Wade Robson and James Safechuck, they have my deepest sympathy and compassion. I don’t claim to know what happened between Michael and his accusers. I wasn’t there.




Safechuck said he first met the pop star while shooting a soda commercial at age 10. He claims that after developing a friendship with Jackson, he was also abused by the singer in secret hideaways throughout Neverland Ranch and in hotel rooms while on tour.

Safechuck also said Jackson would make him participate in "drills" where "he would pretend like somebody was coming in and you had to get dressed as fast as possible without making noise."

When sexual misconduct allegations against Jackson surfaced in 1993, both Robson and Safechuck testified on the singer's behalf, saying he never molested or touched them in appropriately. Robson did again in 2005, prior to Jackson's acquittal on child abuse charges.

But now the two men have come forward to claim that they were, in fact, sexually abused by the singer – and that it took becoming fathers themselves for them to recognize themselves as victims of childhood abuse by the singer.








Robson told Winfrey that when he testified he had “no understanding that what Michael did to me sexually was abuse. I had no concept of it being that.”

“From night one of the abuse, of the sexual stuff that Michael did to me, he told me it was love,” Robson said. “He told me that he loved me and God brought us together. … Anything Michael would say to me was gospel.”

'Ambition and self-interest'

Rwaramba, who acknowledges she doesn’t know whether or not Jackson molested the two men, described Robeson and his mother as determined to use Jackson’s fame and celebrity to make him a star.

“I know Wade Robson and his family well,” Rwaramba said in the statement. “I first met Joy Robson back in the early 90s, when I was at MJJ Productions. In late 1994, I attended the release party of Wade’s first album in California. I distinctly recall Joy running that event as though her life depended on it. After that release party, I didn’t see the Robsons again until early 1997, when Wade joined several other families at Neverland after Prince was born.”


“Over the years, I got to know the Robsons well as they visited the ranch on many different occasions,” Rwaramba continued in the statement. “Neverland was an enchanting place where the butlers, cooks, maids, zookeepers, gardeners and other staff made every guest feel like royalty, and everyone person who was fortunate to visit loved it!”

“The one thing that was consistent about the Robsons over the years was Joy's steely resolve to turn Wade into a star,” Rwaramba said in the statement. “When all the other kids, often including Michael, were off having water balloon fights or watching a movie in the theater, Joy would be drilling Wade on a dance move and every so often wave Michael over for some tips.”

“On one such occasion, Michael sat next to me as I was watching Prince and we watched Wade practice under Joy’s focused inspection. He said to me, “she reminds me of Joseph,” referring to his father’s obsession with perfection. Unbeknownst to Joy, that was her nickname. Michael had a nickname for everyone. This was the only time I ever heard him compare anyone to his father. Also, despite his complicated past with Joseph, he meant this observation as a compliment.”


Several years after his 2009 death, both men sued the Jackson estate civilly for child sexual abuse, but the lawsuits were dismissed due to statutes of limitations. Both men are appealing the separate decisions, according to the documentary.

In the interview with Winfrey, Robson said he was forced to lie on the witness stand at Jackson's 2005 trial and elsewhere, and that the lawsuit was an effort to do "something good with this bad."

“Michael trained me and forced me to tell the lie for so many years, and particularly on the stand,” he continued. “And those were really traumatizing experiences for me that had a huge impact on the rest of my life. So the feeling was, I want an opportunity to reprocess that experience. I want to get on the stand again, because now I’m able to tell the truth.”

Robson said that his sworn court testimony claiming Jackson never sexually abused him was accurate at least in his own mind at the time. He told Winfrey that he had “no understanding that what Michael did to me sexually was abuse. I had no concept of it being that.”

“From night one of the abuse, of the sexual stuff that Michael did to me, he told me it was love,” Robson said. “He told me that he loved me and God brought us together ... Anything Michael would say to me was gospel.”

'Neverland' wedding bid

Rwaramba also claimed that Robson sought permission to hold his wedding at Neverland -– in the middle of Jackson’s 2005 criminal trial, for which he was acquitted of all charges.

“The Robsons’ ambition and self-interest knew no bounds,” Rwaramba wrote in her statement. “Several months before Michael was acquitted on all charges on June 13, 2005, he came home from court and informed me that I should expect a call from Wade. When Wade called the ranch, security patched the call through to Paris’s room where Michael and I spent most of our time preparing for the next day.

"I put him on speaker phone," Rwaramaba continued. "He informed me that Michael had advised him to contact me about whether he and his finance, Amanda, could have their wedding at Neverland in the fall. I was utterly shocked by how insensitive the request was; Michael was sitting next to me.

"’You know Grace, Neverland is so special to my family and me,’ Wade continued,” according to Rwaramba’s statement. “’Michael has been like a father to me, and it would mean the world to us if Amanda and I could get married at Neverland.’ I told Wade, this is not a good time, reminding him that Michael was in the middle of the fight for his life.”



(MORE: VIDEO: A look at the final days of Michael Jackson's life)


“A few days later, I was in Santa Barbara running errands when Joy called with the same request. I had previously helped Wade gain permission to film a music video at Neverland, which was a big favor considering the strict no cameras policy. I remember responding with a stern ‘do you seriously expect me to ask Michael, right now -- during the trial -- if you can use the ranch for Wade’s wedding?’

"After a moment of awkward tension, she conceded and dropped off the phone," Rwaramaba wrote in the statement. "Why would someone who alleges to have been assaulted for over seven years want to have one of the most sacred events in his life on the same property where the attacks allegedly took place?’”



(MORE: Joe Jackson, patriarch of musical Jackson family, has died)


A woman who answered the phone at the home of Lynnette Joy Robson declined comment, referring interview requests to a public relations spokesperson in New York, who referred ABC News to Finaldi, Robson and Safechuck's attorney.

“What I can't understand is why Wade would continue to voluntarily and consistently return, and bring friends and loved ones, to a place that is the site of the alleged attacks well into his adult life?” Rwaramba said in the statement.

Rwaramba, a Rwandan national, began working as a personnel director and assistant to Jackson in 1992, and became a nanny to his children beginning in 1997, when Jackson’s first child, Prince, was born.

Every night that I was with him, there was abuse'

In the documentary, the two men -- Robson, now 36, and Safechuck, now 41 – claimed they were each individually abused by the pop star, Robson beginning when he was 7-years-old and Safechuck beginning when he was 10.

"Once the abuse started within that first week, every night that I was with him, there was abuse. While my mother was you know, next door," Robson said in an interview with Oprah Winfrey titled "After Neverland," which directly followed the release of the documentary on HBO.





If Michael harmed Wade Robson and James Safechuck, they have my deepest sympathy and compassion. I don’t claim to know what happened between Michael and his accusers. I wasn’t there.




Safechuck said he first met the pop star while shooting a soda commercial at age 10. He claims that after developing a friendship with Jackson, he was also abused by the singer in secret hideaways throughout Neverland Ranch and in hotel rooms while on tour.

Safechuck also said Jackson would make him participate in "drills" where "he would pretend like somebody was coming in and you had to get dressed as fast as possible without making noise."

When sexual misconduct allegations against Jackson surfaced in 1993, both Robson and Safechuck testified on the singer's behalf, saying he never molested or touched them in appropriately. Robson did again in 2005, prior to Jackson's acquittal on child abuse charges.

But now the two men have come forward to claim that they were, in fact, sexually abused by the singer – and that it took becoming fathers themselves for them to recognize themselves as victims of childhood abuse by the singer.








Robson told Winfrey that when he testified he had “no understanding that what Michael did to me sexually was abuse. I had no concept of it being that.”

“From night one of the abuse, of the sexual stuff that Michael did to me, he told me it was love,” Robson said. “He told me that he loved me and God brought us together. … Anything Michael would say to me was gospel.”

'Ambition and self-interest'

Rwaramba, who acknowledges she doesn’t know whether or not Jackson molested the two men, described Robeson and his mother as determined to use Jackson’s fame and celebrity to make him a star.

“I know Wade Robson and his family well,” Rwaramba said in the statement. “I first met Joy Robson back in the early 90s, when I was at MJJ Productions. In late 1994, I attended the release party of Wade’s first album in California. I distinctly recall Joy running that event as though her life depended on it. After that release party, I didn’t see the Robsons again until early 1997, when Wade joined several other families at Neverland after Prince was born.”


“Over the years, I got to know the Robsons well as they visited the ranch on many different occasions,” Rwaramba continued in the statement. “Neverland was an enchanting place where the butlers, cooks, maids, zookeepers, gardeners and other staff made every guest feel like royalty, and everyone person who was fortunate to visit loved it!”

“The one thing that was consistent about the Robsons over the years was Joy's steely resolve to turn Wade into a star,” Rwaramba said in the statement. “When all the other kids, often including Michael, were off having water balloon fights or watching a movie in the theater, Joy would be drilling Wade on a dance move and every so often wave Michael over for some tips.”

“On one such occasion, Michael sat next to me as I was watching Prince and we watched Wade practice under Joy’s focused inspection. He said to me, “she reminds me of Joseph,” referring to his father’s obsession with perfection. Unbeknownst to Joy, that was her nickname. Michael had a nickname for everyone. This was the only time I ever heard him compare anyone to his father. Also, despite his complicated past with Joseph, he meant this observation as a compliment.”


Several years after his 2009 death, both men sued the Jackson estate civilly for child sexual abuse, but the lawsuits were dismissed due to statutes of limitations. Both men are appealing the separate decisions, according to the documentary.

In the interview with Winfrey, Robson said he was forced to lie on the witness stand at Jackson's 2005 trial and elsewhere, and that the lawsuit was an effort to do "something good with this bad."

“Michael trained me and forced me to tell the lie for so many years, and particularly on the stand,” he continued. “And those were really traumatizing experiences for me that had a huge impact on the rest of my life. So the feeling was, I want an opportunity to reprocess that experience. I want to get on the stand again, because now I’m able to tell the truth.”

Robson said that his sworn court testimony claiming Jackson never sexually abused him was accurate at least in his own mind at the time. He told Winfrey that he had “no understanding that what Michael did to me sexually was abuse. I had no concept of it being that.”

“From night one of the abuse, of the sexual stuff that Michael did to me, he told me it was love,” Robson said. “He told me that he loved me and God brought us together ... Anything Michael would say to me was gospel.”

'Neverland' wedding bid

Rwaramba also claimed that Robson sought permission to hold his wedding at Neverland -– in the middle of Jackson’s 2005 criminal trial, for which he was acquitted of all charges.

“The Robsons’ ambition and self-interest knew no bounds,” Rwaramba wrote in her statement. “Several months before Michael was acquitted on all charges on June 13, 2005, he came home from court and informed me that I should expect a call from Wade. When Wade called the ranch, security patched the call through to Paris’s room where Michael and I spent most of our time preparing for the next day.

"I put him on speaker phone," Rwaramaba continued. "He informed me that Michael had advised him to contact me about whether he and his finance, Amanda, could have their wedding at Neverland in the fall. I was utterly shocked by how insensitive the request was; Michael was sitting next to me.

"’You know Grace, Neverland is so special to my family and me,’ Wade continued,” according to Rwaramba’s statement. “’Michael has been like a father to me, and it would mean the world to us if Amanda and I could get married at Neverland.’ I told Wade, this is not a good time, reminding him that Michael was in the middle of the fight for his life.”



(MORE: VIDEO: A look at the final days of Michael Jackson's life)


“A few days later, I was in Santa Barbara running errands when Joy called with the same request. I had previously helped Wade gain permission to film a music video at Neverland, which was a big favor considering the strict no cameras policy. I remember responding with a stern ‘do you seriously expect me to ask Michael, right now -- during the trial -- if you can use the ranch for Wade’s wedding?’

"After a moment of awkward tension, she conceded and dropped off the phone," Rwaramaba wrote in the statement. "Why would someone who alleges to have been assaulted for over seven years want to have one of the most sacred events in his life on the same property where the attacks allegedly took place?’”



(MORE: Joe Jackson, patriarch of musical Jackson family, has died)


A woman who answered the phone at the home of Lynnette Joy Robson declined comment, referring interview requests to a public relations spokesperson in New York, who referred ABC News to Finaldi, Robson and Safechuck's attorney.

“What I can't understand is why Wade would continue to voluntarily and consistently return, and bring friends and loved ones, to a place that is the site of the alleged attacks well into his adult life?” Rwaramba said in the statement.

Rwaramba, a Rwandan national, began working as a personnel director and assistant to Jackson in 1992, and became a nanny to his children beginning in 1997, when Jackson’s first child, Prince, was born.

“For twelve years, from 1997 to 2009, I was part of Michael’s family … I spent more time with Michael in the last twelve years of his life than anyone except his children.”

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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:55 am



Image

For every anti Mike article/post, there's tons which are supporting him. I can actually see them breaking rank and telling the real truth saying he never did anything untoward to them in the near future. As I said earlier this is that Jussie thing all over again. Doctored footage, doctored photographs, timelines that don't match up etc etc.


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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:04 am

https://tiffanyfitzhenry.com/2019/03/06 ... neverland/





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Enty, out favorite undercover entertainment attorney, is claiming that LEAVING NEVERLAND was funded by none other than Oprah, Gayle King, David Geffen, Harvey Weinstein and TMZ founder Harvey Levin…

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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by pixel » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:57 am


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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Bandit » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:29 am

That would be insane if Harvey Weinstein really funded this. But I'd need to see proof before I believe that theory. That sounds like a story too good (for lack of a better term) to be true. But it could be.

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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:53 am

Bandit wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:29 am
That would be insane if Harvey Weinstein really funded this. But I'd need to see proof before I believe that theory. That sounds like a story too good (for lack of a better term) to be true. But it could be.
He is allegedly one of the co-funders of the MJ doc along with Oprah, Gayle King, David Geffen and the TMZ founder. I don't know how true this all is but it certainly would make sense he floods the mass media with anti MJ vitriolic and also you've got Gayle targeting R Kelly too.

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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:21 am


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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:15 am

I actually had to google who that guy was. Guess it's open season again on MJ, then when the two are proven to be money grabbing liars everyone can go back to 2009 mode when they suddenly loved MJs music again.




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Re: Celebrity News Thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:19 am


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