Music documentaries/videos/concert topic

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Bandit
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Re: Music documentaries/videos/concert topic

Postby Bandit » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:24 am

It was the director's choice to end it there. He did interview them about the entire history, but thought it should end on the high of Knebworth because the band all agrees now they should have ended it there too. He said he was going to put some of those interviews about 1997-2009 on the Blu ray, but only a half hour of extra footage was on it and it was all from the same time frame as the movie.

Somebody made an edited version of Be Here Now, and it's still not that great.




They fucked up by not modernizing. Noel kept talking about how much he liked EDM and was inspired hearing Odelay and working with the Chemical Brothers. But he then puts out a boring standard rock record and had the misfortune of some true classics coming out around the same time (OK Computer, Urban Hymns, Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating in Space, Vanishing Point, Radiator, etc.) But it was kind of funny how BHN sticking to standard rock was completely rejected in the US at the same time the same people were bitching about U2 and Smashing Pumpkins trying to add EDM influences. I don't know what people wanted. In hindsight we were all spoiled and thought good mainstream rock records were always going to be made, and if anything that got shit on in 1997 were released now people would love it.

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Re: Music documentaries/videos/concert topic

Postby Big Boss Man » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:05 am

They could have incorporated certain different elements into their sound but Oasis by and large where a Rock band. Had they messed around with their formula it wouldn't be them. But I get what you mean. They needed to branch out and more inventive. Say they put out a record similar to say Radiohead's OK Computer the general public would like *shrug shoulders, what's this?*. They were really too in the public eye to do anything drastic. I wouldn't have been surprised if they would have went Paul Weller-esque with a 'Stanley Road' type record but I don't think the Gallagher brothers were into Northern Soul/Ska type of music like what Paul Weller was. I mean, weird comparison I guess, but the third Spice Girls record had Jam & Lewis produce for them and Rodney Jerkins and they made a R&B record which was no where near the success their previous two albums were. So say Oasis did a more avant-garde type record it could have been a real mistake too. I think Oasis played it safe and went for WTSMG Vol 2 type album where its more of the same but they still sold over 400,000 records in the first week. A Oasis/Chemical Brothers albums might have worked if it was remixes of songs from Glory and Definitely Maybe but again I think record company boss(es) would balk at a band the size of Oasis putting out an experimental type record. Groups like Radiohead, Portishead, Spiritualized, Primal Scream et al could do that because they were bubbling under the surface whilst everything Oasis did was covered by the press. I probably would have brought in an outside producer to rework their sound a bit. Someone like a Butch Vig but then you'd get comparisons to Nirvana, Garbage et al. If they had say brought in Phil Spector it would have added to the 'they want to be the Beatles' talk even more. They hit a home run with the supposed difficult sophomore album jinx some bands/singers have, it was the third which was jinxed. Songs like D'You Know What I Mean?, All Around the World & Stand by Me are a solid foundation to build on but like you say people wanted something more. A drum & bass, ambient, dub etc sound from Oasis doesn't really sit right because their sound is deeply rooted in rock music. The Brit Pop era was starting to conclude but had they had stepped over the boundaries too far then I doubt BHN would have even dented the charts. They needed a WTSMG Vol 2 to sell records and in hindsight it's difficult to decipher whether had they did incorporate other influences in their music if it would have worked. I'm actually doubting it would, as apart from Noel making 'Setting Sun' with the Chemical Brothers they were seen as a Brit Pop rock band.
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Re: Music documentaries/videos/concert topic

Postby Bandit » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:55 am

The Spice Girls were always going to be a trend. As soon as they lost the novelty to their young adult fans and their little girl fans grew up they were finished. Then they'd have to wait for nostalgia to come back, which they did a few years ago. What was supposed to happen with them was one would emerge as the star people wanted to still see ala Justin Timberlake, Harry Styles, Robbie Williams, etc. But they weren't talented enough to stand on their own.

Oasis was a trend too, as it didn't matter what came next they weren't going to be the phenomenon they were in 1996. But rock bands always have more longevity than pop acts, as they can take the sales hit as long as it was a good record. But when they went around saying they're the 90s Beatles you can't stick to sounding like Help! forever and not make your Revolver. I know what the pop fans wanted, but the media really thought they were going to make something profound in the hype of 1997. So the attitude, especially in America where they were seemingly done overnight was "These guys talked all this shit about how nobody can touch them and they give us Magic Pie?" So they changed public opinion to "They blew it and The Verve and Radiohead got it right." MTV played D'You Know What I Mean? constantly and then ignored everything else, as Radiohead and Verve got the airplay. Even MTV News would be snarky about them.

But I guess the right thing would have been holding onto the b-sides and making that the third album, then taking time to do something fresh in 1999. I'm not saying they should have put out something that sounded like Aphex Twin with Liam singing over it. But a better version of Standing on the Shoulder of Giants would do. Nobody liked it because it was really morose (although a perfect come down companion piece to the coke binge Be Here Now really) But a happier band could have taken Noel's brief Beta Band fandom into something.

And here's the chapter in the Creation Records book I was talking about here. The story is insane and the whole book My Magpie Eyes are Hungry For The Prize is great as it also talks about crazy Jesus and the Mary Chain stories, Primal Scream, Kevin Shields as a mad genius, and Alan McGee is a real character.

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Re: Music documentaries/videos/concert topic

Postby Big Boss Man » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:51 am

In the U.K., the Spice Girls had universal appeal and everyone seemingly had a favourite. They were different to the cookie cutter girl/boy bands til that point. They all had their gimmicks so to speak and they were cleverly marketed to appeal to both female and male audiences. Their ace up their sleeve so to speak was Geri and once she left they were effectively done. She did have some solo success with a few #1 records.

The Spice Girls in America doc is well worth checking out if you haven't seen it. Had Geri been with them then they'd have been huge. True their core audience was youngsters but because of their marketing their appeal transcended that. I think Geri was really the MVP of the group. Mel B never really stepped up to take over and without Ginger Spice their time was up. I do think had she stayed on board and they put out a solid pop record their "run" would have lasted a year or so more. In the U.K. though they went overboard with marketing and promotion. That over saturation cost them where eventually people got fed up as they were everywhere.

In fairness most Pop groups are part of trends. Oasis essentially at their core are a Pop/Rock band. They made songs to appeal a large audience and with WTSMG they hit on a winning formula. Most singers and groups don't have the longetivity of a Rolling Stones etc. Because in general the music industry is incredibly fickle. Look at the late 90s Britney/Backstreet Boys et al and their knockoffs. That is a perfect example of a pop trend. Arguably Britney, Justin and a couple of others have longevity but that's because part of their audience stuck with them.

I think Oasis antics turned off a lot of the public so the casual fan mainstream audience dwindled. You can only push the envelope too far and Oasis believed they were better than they were. A little humility would have worked wonders for them. Going for WTSMG 2 seems smart if you had the casuals on board they'd snap it up. Think Adele who's three albums are basically one and the same. Oasis maybe played it too safe and made a misstep by not maturing their sound. But had they went too experimental they'd have alienated the diehard fans. I mean Queen tried to experiment with their Hot Space LP and go with a R&B/Disco sound but outside of "Another one bites the dust" it wasn't a success. Or think The Beach Boys proposed "Smile" album. Had Noel tried to do a trip hop, ambient, dub, drum and bass etc album that would have been too much for the public to have consumed. The key to a hit record is really being simplistic. I mean look at Ed Sheeran he's like taking elements of hit songs and melding them together and he's laughing all the way to the bank. I think Oasis album number three they should have liked you say reworked their B Sides and their stronger material and put out a catchy record. I think the demand was still there they could have went with a by the numbers record instead of branching out too much like with attempting too big a project.

Had Noel brought in the Chemical Brothers to remix some tracks for B Sides that could have tested the waters to see if there is a market for a new Oasis sound. Thanks for the link about the Creation records book and about the other book. I think Oasis being on an indie label meant experimenting would have been kinda risky since it could have sunk the label. Had they been on Sony, EMI, WB et al they could have took a risk. I think Noel and Liam's super egos were the undoing of the group and because they were so into themselves any record they'd make they would think was great. They needed to go back to basics and drop the egos and have taken a year or two and put out a collection of not OK or even good or great songs. Definitely Maybe I think is their best album. Their B Sides around that time are strong too. Half the World Way should have been an album track and kept for album #3. Playing it safe I think was essential on two fronts to sell a ton of records to the mainstream and keep them in the top echelon of pop/rock bands and to keep Creation as the top indie label.
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Re: Music documentaries/videos/concert topic

Postby Big Boss Man » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:43 pm

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Re: Music documentaries/videos/concert topic

Postby Big Boss Man » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:09 pm

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Re: Music documentaries/videos/concert topic

Postby Dr. Zoidberg » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:34 am


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Re: Music documentaries/videos/concert topic

Postby margarettetalk » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:42 pm

One thing is for sure, nothing beats classic music and movies. While for documentaries there's so much more to explore.

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Re: Music documentaries/videos/concert topic

Postby Big Boss Man » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:57 pm

Yep That's true.


Frank Zappa BBC doc
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