The Jim Cornette Thread

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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Bandit » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:41 am

It was taped September 30th. It's very dumb.

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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Matisfaction » Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:03 am

Surely someone in production must of thought "hang on a second..." 🤔

Whether people find it offensive or not, it shouldn't have got to the stage where people would get a chance to hear it. I'd pull it on the fact that it it's a 30yr old joke that died on its arse. 🙄

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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Bandit » Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:35 am

Yeah, I don't blame Cornette. One it was a mild race joke at most, more lamely outdated than anything. It's not like he pulled a Hogan. Plus when you hire him you know what you're getting. But I think what happened was people who don't like him for the things he's said about AEW and other things banded together to make it look like it was this huge outrage to get him fired when in reality nobody gave a shit about the joke. They tried to get him fired from MLW for various things he'd said on his podcasts and it didn't work. And the problem is NWA is aiming at the social media wrestling fans since they're a Youtube show. So they can't just ignore it like WWE does when something happens since WWE is bigger than people who tweet about independent wrestling. And Cornette quit because he doesn't need NWA since I doubt he's paid a bunch and it's not worth it if this is just going to keep happening everytime he says something on his podcasts or whatever. He probably also felt like Corgan and Lagana didn't have his back since Lagana kind of buried him a few times over other incidents (over the podcast, I think this was the first one that was NWA related.)

It's just unfortunate because he was great on the show doing something he enjoyed, and now all we're going to see of Jim Cornette is the shock jock stuff. At least until season 2 of Darkside of the Ring.

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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Matisfaction » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:22 am

Shame, as Jim was really good on it. Gave it that authentic NWA vibe. They should get Dutch in.

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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Bandit » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:35 am

If he buries them too bad Friday they might hire Russo.

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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Matisfaction » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:58 am

Russo and Jim Herd dream team!

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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:28 pm

Image

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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Bandit » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:23 am

Meltzer seems to say NWA had Cornette on probation for the Justin Roberts stuff but didn't tell him. Even so, he said the line on Power a month before the Roberts stuff.

Meltzer also points out that Bischoff called him a pedophile on 83 Weeks and ended up being hired by WWE while Cornette probably won't be hired by anyone major again. He chalks it up to Cornette just making too many enemies.

But he wonders why Dave Lagana is facing no repercussions for allowing it on the show.

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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:12 am

Image

Image

It's Akeem The African Dream's son.


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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Bandit » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:21 am

It's Akeem The African Dream's son.
So he's Conrad's brother?

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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:35 am

Bandit wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:21 am
So he's Conrad's brother?
Yes.

They are all proud African men.

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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Bandit » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:14 am

He needs Slick to certify his father is from "the deepest, darkest part of Africa."

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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:27 am

“As much as I can say, I’m disappointed and I hope that he can try to fix this. But, some people just don’t like people of color.”

“I would say, ‘Jim … please apologize, and mean it. And if you don’t mean it, then go all the way Darth Vader and tell I just don’t like black people.”

“At least I know who you are. And, then I can get rid of this feeling that I have in my heart. It’s like having your mother or father disown you. I feel like a sense of mourning.”
https://www.ringsidenews.com/2019/11/22 ... -comments/

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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:30 am


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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Bandit » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:51 am

After a week of controversy, Jim Cornette has resigned from his position as television announcer for the NWA Powerrr promotion.

Cornette, 58, to his credit, was arguably the best announcer as far as all aspects were concerned in the business at this point, if you figure in smoothness of delivery, ability to turn a phrase when warranted, knowledge of the moves as well as match and announcing psychology, and the key job of all, getting over new talent and storylines.

Ironically, it was that second aspect, turning a phrase, that led to his departure.

On the 11/19 show, during a match with NWA champion Nick Aldis vs. Trevor Murdoch, in an attempt to get Murdoch over, Cornette said that Murdoch was so tough that he “could strap a bucket of fried chicken on his back and drive a motor scooter through Ethiopia.” The commentary, and the show itself, were done live in Atlanta at the PBS Studio on 9/30.

Cornette has used that line in interviews in the past to talk about how tough someone is, dating back to 1985, without anyone batting an eye. I can’t remember if Jerry Lawler said it in the 70s, and many of Cornette’s lines come from Lawler’s best promos or from comedians he saw as a kid. But things very similar to that phrase had been used in wrestling by him and others dating back decades. But what was fine in 1985 and 1995 isn’t fine today, both actions and verbiage. Even though it also came out this week that Randy Orton used the N word on a Twitch video, something a few people knew but nobody said a word about until it came up in a Twitter battle with Tony Khan, and it was then forgotten almost immediately, Cornette’s line didn’t play well. As much as anything, it’s more an example of changes in society. The reality is that while people look fondly on the past in wrestling, a large part of the old wrestling lifestyle and promotion of numerous angles, as well as the treatment of minorities in the way they were promoted would never work today.

The line itself didn’t play well. On the flip side, I’m certain Cornette was not thinking anything of it when he said it. David Lagana, who edits the show, obviously didn’t either as it could have been edited out.

As soon as the controversy hit, Lagana pulled down the show, edited the line out, and put it back up, and issued an apology.

“On tonight’s episode of NWA Powerrr airing on November 19, 2019, one of our talents made comments which some viewers found offensive. We deeply regret the error and apologize. We have temporarily taken the program down while we correct the error.”

The next day, the NWA released a second statement: “Effective immediately: Jim Cornette has resigned from the National Wrestling Alliance. As an announcer on the November 19th edition of NWA Power, Jim made remarks during a singles match between Nick Aldis and Trevor Murdoch that were both offensive and do not meet the high standard of decency and good faith of the National Wrestling Alliance. To ensure that such an error can never happen again, we've established new procedures of review for all NWA programming going forward. We sincerely regret our failure in this regard.”

Clearly that was a tough decision, but one they probably would have had a hard time proceeding with the company trying to ride out the storm. It was clear Cornette loved the spot and for the NWA, he may have been the most valuable on-camera presence on the show (he or Nick Aldis were the most valuable television performers and they have two very different roles) and no replacement will be able to bring to them what he brought. That is how good his work was on that show.

Clearly there was no evil intent, and one can argue double standards, a line used before and all, and others having done worse, but like everything, it’s about time and place. The same lines were said before and nobody batted an eye, which didn’t make them right then, but the fact nobody cared then is about a combination of societal differences and a changing culture. If Cornette hadn’t become a lightning rod of late, someone who in a sense worked at being controversial and loved making enemies, it’s very probable nothing would have transpired to lead to a mob mentality that led to what happened, with the examples in recent months of both Jerry Lawler and Randy Orton, and before that Eric Bischoff, all being proof. This is not a defense of what he said, but simply a rational look at it. His comments just days earlier about AEW announcer Justin Roberts didn’t help when it comes to this.

After 37 years of on-and-off work in the industry, this could be the end of Cornette’s career. If there was a smidgen of a chance of Cornette parlaying his gimmick into becoming the ultimate heel on AEW television, it would appear, even in a never-say-never world, that it is on life support now if the plug hasn’t been already pulled.

People who talk a lot and who make enemies, due to having opinions that rub a group the wrong way, are going to have their words twisted, and overplayed, which to a degree happened to Cornette earlier in the week. And if they talk a lot, they are going to, if they are lightning rods, as Cornette made himself out to be, at times say something ill-advised inadvertently. And really, that is what this line was. This isn’t to say that other lines both on his podcast and Twitter feed aren’t meant to be insulting and often veer into a bad look in 2019.

The line didn’t play well with today’s standards. Cornette should recognize that and apologize, and then move on. Given his reaction, that probably isn’t going to happen, and in fact, it was the fact he wouldn’t that seems to have been the straw that broke the camel’s back for his NWA job.

“Morning everybody! Heard any good jokes lately? This coming Friday’s Jim Cornette Experience (wherever you find your favorite podcasts) is liable to be a good one if you like hearing stupid people told what they can do with their stupidity.”

Aldis, the NWA champion and top star of the company said, “This is in no way speaking on behalf of the NWA, I am absolutely just speaking for myself. I thought the comment was in poor taste and unnecessary. I totally understand why it caused many to be upset. It was a lack of judgment or sensitivity. I have worked really hard along with many others on this team to make this brand mean something again, and this is now how I want the NWA to be trending.”

David Marquez, who handled the interviews on the show, said on Facebook, “The following are my views and not those of any companies I'm affiliated with. I've known and worked with Jim Cornette for over 20 years. He and I have had our differences for sure. He, like myself, are a lot of things, but being a racist is not one of them (look at his record in promoting Black talent). It's pointless to try and paint a different picture of the man because let's face it, the majority of the public dislikes him. What he said on the show is a dated, throwaway comedic line that everyone from Bob Hope to George Carlin to Dave Chapelle has said. But since it's JC it's deemed "bad" and is spotlighted. It's unfortunate that he won't be on the broadcast any longer. A lot of what you enjoyed was because of his suggestion behind the scenes. And for those casting stones, make sure your history is as squeaky clean, on the up and safe as possible because when news about your past hits don't look for sympathy when you're shown the door and the crowd turns on you.”

Marquez had hinted that he may also be leaving the show, but made it clear it had nothing to do with this situation, but because he would be affiliated with a new Circle Squared promotion.

According to one person very close to the situation, Lagana held himself accountable for his mistake in not editing the line out. This was blamed on simply exhaustion. But it was also noted that there have been other lines said on the NWA shows that Lagana has edited out that would also qualify as poor taste stuff.

The real issue as far as the NWA was concerned was that Cornette refused to apologize.

It was also noted that there were those there who weren’t happy that he had become so anti-AEW on his podcast which, as their announcer, was something that led to negativity from some toward their product. The reality is that the NWA Powerrr audience on YouTube had very significant crossover with that of AEW Dark, so they have similar fan bases. Even if they didn’t, while a voice of one promotion can criticize the other, it needs to be reasoned and Cornette’s way over-the-top criticisms of AEW were not a good look for the NWA. The only reason he could get away with it up to this point is because everyone recognized how talented he was at his job.

Even before that line, Cornette was already the center of controversy. He delivered a line about AEW ring announcer Justin Roberts when he was asked about Roberts being nice to a kid that got hurt at a show and made a flippant remark about Roberts, saying “Justin Roberts looks like he ought to be registered somewhere to be around children. He’s so happy. You see a f***ing guy dressed up like that with that big smile coming across his face coming towards your kids, run,”

I have no clue what Roberts did to deserve that, although like everything, it did get blown up into Cornette calls Justin Roberts a pedophile, when he was making a joke. It wasn’t a very tasteful or classy joke, it was just Cornette doing promos, which is what he does. Cornette’s entire shtick for decades has been Don Rickles-style insulting people, similar to that of Bobby Heenan, who he grew up idolizing. Cornette as a WCW announcer in that era was positively tame when it came to racial and ethnic jokes as compared to Heenan and Jesse Ventura, and Cornette’s commentary, more for better, although in the case of that line, sometimes for worse, has really not changed a bit from what he did 30 years ago. Many people, as times change and they use the same style sense of humor as was considered fine when they were younger, can fall into this trap. A large percentage of the most famous comedians in another era played upon race, ethnicity and/or sex in their comedy, at levels so far more offensive than that. And if they did the same routine today, would risk outrage.

That said, Roberts to me is not enough of a public figure in wrestling, nor did he ever do anything that warranted that line. To me, I didn’t find the line funny at all, nor did I find funny the way people blew the line out of proportion later. And this line absolutely played a part in the atmosphere that led to the reaction to the Murdoch line.

I’ve had people say basically the same thing about me, Eric Bischoff in particular, and it was not delivered humorously. This got no reaction in social media because it was just somebody saying something stupid, and like everything, the people who choose sides only choose sides. When it happened, I didn’t give it a second of thought, kind of thought it was pathetic, but expected no better, and moved on. Nobody else did either because it fell into the category of bitter old man says stupid things. Now, about two decades ago, Bischoff said something similar, but worse, about Bruce Mitchell, a wrestling reporter who doubles as an elementary school teacher, comparing him to a pedophile who was known in the wrestling industry and was serving time. Mitchell filed a lawsuit which ended up being very quickly and privately settled out of court since Bischoff was clearly dead-to-rights on that one.

I never thought about the deal with me again until the Cornette furor over Roberts came out. The huge reaction it caused to people, many of whom read the same line before and didn’t care, was because of who said it unless they also reacted equally to the same situation from Bischoff. The funny thing is, I didn’t care when it was said about me, but was a lot more unhappy it was said about Roberts. I didn’t think he was enough of a public figure, even though he’s written a very good book about his experiences in WWE, and had a long run as ring announcer with the largest company and is the key ring announcer of the No. 2 company today.

Cornette then made fun of people who criticized him for it, noting he said nothing close to what people claimed he said, and believe me, the accounts of what people claimed he said and listening for myself were very different. He pretty much blamed it on AEW fans who were mad that he continually knocks The Young Bucks, Kenny Omega and others. Had he made those remarks about any of those three, while no better in reality, it probably wouldn’t have got a reaction because they are celebrities. It would be the usual choose sides and don’t care about the actual facts or truth that has become a sad part of modern society. But in his case, yes people blew it way out of proportion, and he was being the over-the-top person that his followers enjoy, but Roberts simply didn’t deserve what he really did say either.

The bad part of social media, and this story is twofold, both a guy who became a celebrity by insulting people with almost no boundaries and that being what made him a celebrity, is now living in a world where enemies are looking to twist words and get outraged. Again, no defense, in particular of the Murdoch line, because it shouldn’t have been said today, shouldn’t have made the air and he should have apologized because even to people not looking to get him, the line was inappropriate in today’s environment.

The reality is that as much as people rightly criticized the line, their selectivity in going after him and not others tells you in the end, the moral of the story is people were out to get him and what he said was an excuse.

Randy Orton using the n word on Twitch no less in 2019 was far worse, and we are just weeks away from Jerry Lawler calling Humberto Carrillo a Mexican jumping bean. While Cornette did use the n word in the 80s, and unfortunately, that term was used frequently in wrestling, in the 70s it was actually a business term in wrestling used by members of every race, he’d have been destroyed far worse for either line and both came out unscathed. Similarly, Bischoff came out unscathed for virtually identical remarks as Cornette’s about Roberts this past year.

Cornette, one of the greatest wrestling managers and promo guys in wrestling history, has had temper issues throughout his career, although in this case that wasn’t what did him in. It has underlied his unquestioned talent at numerous aspects of the business.

Cornette started his career in wrestling at the age of 14, doing photography for national wrestling magazines from shows in Louisville. He later expanded his business into selling photos at shows and handling the programs sold in the Jarrett territory. In time, his mother and local promoter Christine Jarrett became close friends. In 1982, at the age of 20, by which point he was very successful in his side wrestling endeavors, Jerry Jarrett picked him to be a heel manager, feeling he had a personality people could easily hate. Cornette played a rich mama’s boy, using a tennis racket as his gimmick.

He worked the Tennessee territory, as well as Georgia, before his big career break when Bill Watts brought him, Bobby Eaton & Dennis Condrey to Mid South Wrestling, as the Midnight Express. Cornette would obnoxiously ring announce his teams’ entrance.

Cornette was so successful at getting heat that Watts, at that pint the retired television announcer, put together a program based around the two of them. After Cornette insulted Watts’ son, Watts slapped him and Condrey and Eaton beat Watts down. This led to The Last Stampede, with Watts coming ut of retirement to team with Stagger Lee (Junkyard Dog under a mask) against The Midnight Express. It was the most successful program in the history of pro wrestling in that part of the country, setting records in most major cities in Louisiana, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Arkansas and selling out the Sam Houston Coliseum. It drew 25,000 fans to the SuperDome in New Orleans and 15,000 to the Myriad Center in Oklahoma City, the latter setting a record for business that held up for more than a decade and the former being the second biggest in that building until nearly 15 years later.

The team became even more famous working for Jim Crockett Promotions, particularly in programs with The Rock & Roll Express, The Road Warriors, Dusty Rhodes & Magnum T.A., and The Fantastics. The Midnight Express vs. Road Warriors scaffold match was the key selling point of the 1986 Starrcade show, which was the most successful non-WWF event up to that point in the U.S.

By 1989, Cornette was a key member of the World Championship Wrestling booking team, as well as a television announcer.

He left the promotion after a dispute with Jim Herd to form Smoky Mountain Wrestling, which ran from 1991 to 1995. There were key economic issues that killed regional wrestling, mostly related to having to pay high prices for television time because stations could make money from infommercials and the television business recognized wrestling needed television so felt they should paid for that time. Having to pay for television time was a key reason for the deaths of Mid South Wrestling, Jim Crockett Promotions, SMW and ECW, combined with difficulty in drawing fans from 1992 to 1995, when the popularity of wrestling was the lowest since the late 50s.

He worked for WWF, including being part of the creative team in 1997, which was the year the company turned its fortunes around and started drawing again on the back of people like Steve Austin, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels and Undertaker. He was eventually taking off the team, and ended up working out a deal with Jim Ross where he’d return to Louisville and run the Ohio Valley Wrestling developmental territory.

OVW turned out WWE’s four key new stars of that era, Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Dave Bautista and Randy Orton. Cornette’s temper did him in, as he was so mad at Anthony Carelli (later Santino Marella) when he was stationed as a plant in the crowd who was supposed to be scared of the Boogeyman, and instead smiled, that he started slapping Carelli around. When the word got back to WWE, he was let go.

Cornette worked for TNA from 2006 to 2009, but was let go after Vince Russo wanted to bring in Ed Ferrara as a co-writer and told Dixie Carter that due to a past incident (Cornette losing his temper on Ferrara because of the role Ferrara played in WCW mocking Cornette’s close friend Jim Ross and his Bell’s Palsy) that Ferrara wouldn’t come in unless Cornette was gone. Cornette didn’t like Russo previously, but this was the breaking point as it was a job Cornette enjoyed at the time.

Cornette was also instrumental in saving ROH. ROH was losing money at a significant rate and owner Cary Silkin was looking to shut it down. Cornette, through a friend from the 80s, Gary Juster, were able to open negotiations to lead to Sinclair Broadcasting buying the promotion. Cornette was the original booker. While Cornette’s booking in WCW was strong, and while in OVW, he was probably the best creative person in the game, in ROH, the fan base wanted a certain style of wrestling and Cornette had a different philosophy. A lot of the younger talent felt his ideas were outdated and he had issues with a slew of talent, including Kevin Steen (Owens), El Generico (Sami Zayn), Colt Cabana, The Young Bucks, Kenny Omega, Austin Aries, Kenny King and others. Cornette eventually left the promotion in 2012 after issues with Greg Gilleland, the General Manager.

Cornette was upset from day one because he had been told Sinclair would fund a first-rate television production, and instead they went in on the cheap, which also included a number of iPPV misfires that hurt business.

He worked for TNA for a second stint and became a podcast host. It was clear from his podcasts that his knowledge of wrestling history was some of the best in the world, and aspects of his mind for wrestling were excellent. But as times changed and the business and fans changed, he didn’t keep up, not learning the lesson of Watts, who was a genius in 1987 and had fallen out of touch by not following the product by 1992. With Cornette, this came in a period where the business changed greatly, not all for the better, but not all for the worst either.

Cornette was voted Manager of the Year 12 times between 1984 and 1996, Booker of the Year in 1993, 2001 and 2003, and Best on Interviews five times between 1985 and 1993, the latter of which is most impressive considering the quality of talkers in that era was at its zenith.

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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Matisfaction » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:10 am


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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Bandit » Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:21 am


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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:19 pm

A few quick updates regarding the Jim Cornette situation. Cornette gave his explanation of the issues in place regarding the line on the NWA show that aired Tuesday here on his podcast.

The gist is that he meant nothing racial, noted that nobody said a word about it when he said it at first or in the period since he said it. He did apologize to those offended but felt many were out to get him and he wouldn't apologize to them. He explained how this led to his departure for the NWA and did admit to hanging the phone up on David Lagana when Lagana asked him to apologize publicly. If you're interested, you should listen. He did try and blame the issue on AEW fans who were mad that he insulted their cosplay wrestlers, which, while correct in some instances as far as his enemies list goes, that was a real bad take on the subject. To label this as AEW fans out to get him misses the entire point.

While he didn't say this, what went down is that the NWA did want to keep him, although it was tough. They had edited lines out he said before, and were mad that a different line no last week's show got through after the fact, but that didn't end up causing serious controversy. They had edited out others as well, but perhaps only one other person. They did want him to take a temporary hiatus from the product, and with that suggestion, he quit. They wanted him to apologize and he wanted to address it on his podcast instead today, or even on the 12/14 PPV show with the idea of bringing attention to that show. They felt the apology had to be immediate. When he wouldn't do that, it led to Cornette quitting. There were other issues involved as well but that was the key part of things.
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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:41 pm

Cornette's Rapper's Delight was pretty good.

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Re: The Jim Cornette Thread

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:40 pm


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