WWE Thread (Spoilers)

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Dr. Zoidberg
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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:09 pm

Bandit wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:02 pm
Also isn't Benoit secretly in the HOF already as a Four Horsemen member?
Yes, he probably is, unless WWE said only specific members are in.

That also means Paul Roma is in the HOF.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:16 pm

Dr. Zoidberg wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:09 pm
Bandit wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:02 pm
Also isn't Benoit secretly in the HOF already as a Four Horsemen member?
Yes, he probably is, unless WWE said only specific members are in.

That also means Paul Roma is in the HOF.
And the greatest Horseman ever Mongo~!

They only let Ric, Arn, Barry and JJ talk but Flair acknowledged the others. When he said Benoit it got applause. WWE edited that part out on the DVD and Network.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:48 am



He's deserving of a main roster job if he toughed out a broken leg.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Ocelot » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:57 pm

Hope that Rhea Ripley deal doesn't hurt her too bad. She made a youthful mistake, she apologized, move on. Girl is gonna be *money* in about three to four years.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:29 pm

Dr. Zoidberg wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:27 pm
Other artists were making mini movies/videos before MJ (Duran Duran for instance), although his ones ended up being bigger events.
Queen are often cited as having the first music video with "Bohemian Rhapsody" back in 1974.
In 1983, the most successful, influential and iconic music video of all time was released: the nearly 14-minute-long video for Michael Jackson's song "Thriller", directed by John Landis. The video set new standards for production, having cost US $800,000 to film. The video for "Thriller", along with earlier videos by Jackson for his songs "Billie Jean" and "Beat It", were instrumental in getting music videos by African American artists played on MTV. Prior to Jackson's success, videos by African-American artists were rarely played on MTV: according to MTV, this was because it initially conceived itself as a rock-music-oriented channel, although musician Rick James was outspoken in his criticism of the cable channel, claiming in 1983 that MTV's refusal to air the music video for his song "Super Freak" and clips by other African-American performers was "blatant racism". David Bowie had also previously lashed out against MTV during an interview that he did with them prior to the release of "Thriller", stating that he was "floored" by how much MTV neglected black artists, bringing attention to how videos by the "few black artists that one does see" only appeared on MTV between 2:00 AM until 6:00 AM when nobody was watching
MJ also had the MTV Video Vanguard award (given for the most innovative music videos), renamed after him. He also self financed the Thriller music video since CBS balked at the cost and the "Making of Thriller" is one of the most successful & best selling music home videos of all time.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/ ... sic-videos

They can try and erase his legacy, but the truth is Michael Jackson will continue to remain a huge pioneer in music videos.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:53 pm

Big Boss Man wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:29 pm
Queen are often cited as having the first music video with "Bohemian Rhapsody" back in 1974.
It probably was. Mike Nesmith's "Rio" from 1977 was the first expensive MV like we would see a lot in the 80s.



A nice song too.
Big Boss Man wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:29 pm
They can try and erase his legacy, but the truth is Michael Jackson will continue to remain a huge pioneer in music videos.
Nobody is saying his music videos weren't influential or that they weren't great. Don't know if he influenced WWF that much or their rise though.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:45 pm

The Big Bopper is credited with making the first music video (and also creating the term in an interview) in 1959. The Beatles popularized them in 1966 when they decided to send them out for television music shows around the world instead of tour.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:23 pm

My point about MJ was that they are trying to re-write history and downplay the gigantic worldwide cultural impact that his music and videos had. That's the huge issue I have, yes there was other artists before who made music videos (Frank Zappa used clayanimation I believe a decade before Peter Gabriel's Sledgehammer, the Syd Barrett era Pink Floyd were making avant garde type videos too) but Thriller is essentially a mini movie. Plus it sold a huge ton of home videos (I believe it was the first music VHS to be certified gold). If we talk music videos in turns of a promotional vehicle, that no doubt got folks to go to stores and buy the album. That also was a groundbreaking aspect using the video as essentially an advertisement for the album. Plus not only Thriller, but the Billie Jean video too. Then later Bad, Leave me Alone, Speed Demon, Liberian Girl, Man in the Mirror, Jam, Remember the Time...the list goes on. But arguably Thriller was the real game changer and set the high benchmark for other artists to compete with. Whereas before music videos were often just a recording of a live performance but Thriller had a story and was as I've mentioned an actual mini movie and in that instance one of the first to mix dramatic type elements with music.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:43 pm

If Bray is Mr Rogers, are we going to have Luke Harper do a Bob Ross gimmick?

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:00 am

Nobody is saying his music and videos weren't great, they're attacking him as a person if they believe the allegations. He's been thought of that way since 1993, so it's really not new. And when people compiled Best Songs/Albums or Videos Ever lists I don't think they're not going to include him now if they included him the past 26 years. The anti-Jackson articles I've read were never "Actually Thriller sucked" but more "I am not comfortable listening to him now even though I was a fan" type articles. And when you're as massive of a star as he was, you can't erase that even if you tried.

And also I'd argue Michael's Motown 25 performance did more for him than the music videos. Most people didn't have cable to get MTV still in 1984. But 35 million people watched his NBC performance and the next day the Moonwalk was national news with the media hailing it as the greatest performance ever so then everybody saw the clip in the next few days. I think Duran Duran (who were doing the big movie style videos a year before) benefitted more from MTV. They were not being played on American radio at all until Hungry Like The Wolf's music video made them superstars and then radio had to pick them up. Michael was already a Hall of Fame worthy singer with Off The Wall.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:50 am

But the main issue here, is they are using the "allegations" as an excuse to re-write history and use that as an excuse to downplay his success & essentially erase him from history. You mention you can't erase what he's done, but they are certainly trying their hardest to do so. I read somewhere they are trying to push Beyonce ahead of MJ as the new megastar but you can never compete with Michael, since he had that superstardom that only Elvis & The Beatles have had. I've been looking into this further and apparently Wade Robson was suing the estate for $1.5Bn, the exact amount they were suing AEG for in a wrongful death lawsuit. There's a really good interview that the lawyer who represented Mike in the 2005 trial did where he seems to be a no nonsense type of guy who'd have never defended MJ in a million years if he thought he was guilty of any wrongdoing. He said he questioned Wade a lot of times and thought him to be the strongest witness and in his opinion, as a defense lawyer/attorney that he was telling the honest truth



I think Motown 25 was gigantic for MJ, so yea I definitely agree with that point, but MTV got him accepted by a wider audience, so that certainly played a big part too. Thriller and especially Beat It with Eddie Van Halen was a big game changer. Since you're tapping into the rock audience, like Run-DMC did with Aerosmith. They tried to cut MJ out of Motown 60 I read which really sucks considering the huge impact he had with his performance back at the 25th anniversary show. Yea Duran Duran also made alternative more risque videos which were played in Nightclubs. They talked about them on a BBC doc a while back.
Michael was already a Hall of Fame worthy singer with Off The Wall.
Definitely, but in hindsight OTW was overlooked by the Grammy's and without Thriller propelling MJ into the stratosphere I don't know if they would have given him the same plaudits they did later on. Off the Wall is a great album but critics would have pigeonholed it as a R&B/Disco record. But sonically, its one of the best sounding albums also, especially on vinyl. The mixing of the record is incredibly important and with Quincy's production, plus Bruce Swedien's engineering they really hit it out of the park. Thriller's a great record, but to me, OTW just pushes ahead because there's so much energy on it. Especially Don't Stop, Rock with You, Workin' Day & Night and Get on the Floor which is a super strong A side. Plus the B side you got I Can't Help It which is in my opinion, the real standout on the album, just a classic track.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:20 am

We should move this to to MJ thread. But I don't think pushing Beyonce has anything to do with it. Music needs a living singer to be considered the greatest by their generation (millennials in her case) and people like that a woman is the biggest star in music. And she was being pushed as that years before Leaving Neverland, I'd say when Lemonade came out you saw the fawning of her in the media. And the younger generation are going crazy for Billie Eilish, so she'll probably get the same treatment soon.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:08 pm

Revival: We don't like it here anymore.

WWE: Oh yeah? Well, your back is hairy!

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:45 pm

:olol:

WWE have apparently offered The Revival a $500k a year/5 year deal. That buys a lot of disposable razors.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Wed May 01, 2019 1:25 am

Lio Rush might be released soon. He'd certainly be in AEW.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Wed May 01, 2019 1:30 am

I wonder if he deliberately tried to get himself released or if he's legit annoying?

He will be better off in AEW anyway.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Wed May 01, 2019 3:15 am

He's legit annoying. On the Indies nobody cares, but in WWE you have to earn your right to be annoying.

Plus he was spoiled in CZW where they let him do whatever he wanted.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Wed May 01, 2019 4:16 am

AEW shouldnt bring in folks who will piss people off, since it will affect backstage morale. You don't want a toxic work environment since it'll be latter day WCW all over again or you'd get a situation similar to Bret and Shawn. Cody seems a no nonsense type who wouldn't put up with it anyway, but anyone you bring in has to be respectful and not cause any issue(s).As unless they are a must have signing like CM Punk for example it's not worth the hassle.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Wed May 01, 2019 4:45 am

Lio isn't toxic. He's just a guy who likes to give tons of ideas because he did it for years in CZW where DJ Hyde is known for allowing lots of input from wrestlers. But in WWE a rookie (especially a small guy like Lio) pitching ideas every week is against their unwritten rule that new guys take what they're given and shut up.

If he's really asking to main event every week that's ridiculous. But at least he cares. I'd rather work with a guy like that than someone just showing up for a paycheck. If Cody could put him down easy but he still has that passion to want to be so good he gets in the main event I think that's a great thing. But it doesn't work in the WWE culture.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Wed May 01, 2019 8:43 am

Raw set yet another all-time modern low outside of football season last night with 2.16 million viewers.

The show only beat episodes this past New Year's Eve and Christmas Eve for the record-low mark. What's really scary is this was a nine percent drop from the record non-football season low of 2.37 million viewers that was set last week.

Last night's Raw saw a strong 18.8 percent first-to-third hour drop, falling just under 1.9 million viewers, the first time under two million for Raw outside of a holiday. But the real story was how few fans were watching at the start.

Worse, the traditional pattern is that the decline is just starting and will get worse until the end of the NBA playoffs.

Most of Raw went against the early NBA playoff game that did 3.83 million viewers. The last 25 minutes went against a game that did 3.64 million viewers. It did beat the NHL playoffs on NBC Sports Network, which did 1.18 million viewers.

Still, Raw was eighth for the night on cable and beat everything that wasn't NBA or news related.

For a year-to-year comparison, the NBA playoffs were down 18.3 percent from the same week last year, while Raw was down 29.4 percent, the biggest drop from the previous year when you compare two shows that weren't specials (such as a year after a very highly rated nostalgia show).

The audience under the age of 35 was almost identical to last year, and over 50 was down, but not an unusual amount. It was the 35-49 audience that collapsed from last week, although even based on not including that demo it would have done a record low number.

The three hours were:

8 p.m. 2.34 million viewers
9 p.m. 2.24 million viewers
10 p.m. 1.90 million viewers

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