WWE Thread (Spoilers)

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Ocelot
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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Ocelot » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:10 am

Let's not forget some positivity here - Chris Jericho came to Will Osprey's defense there when he didn't have to. That was pretty damn cool to see. It's obvious that he believes in helping NJPW and AEW.

Also, it's really fucking depressing seeing how far down the rabbit hole the WWE is getting now. Matches are fucked up, no imput from the wrestlers for creative shit, Vince is micromanaging everything to the point of smothering it....like I'm not and never have been the biggest WWE fanboy and I joke about it often, but in all seriousness it just makes me sad seeing how far they've fallen with no end in sight.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:07 am


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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:21 am



After a guy bares his soul about having crippling depression, Seth goes to Sports Illustrated and is all "COME WRESTLE 500 DATES A YEAR PUSSY!" He's been around Vince too long.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:41 am

Bandit wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:33 am
I don't ever remember him selling with his eyes bulged out like that, he was a grimace seller. So something happened there. With so many concussions, getting smacked on the back of the head by a 260 pound man would surely mess him up. I mean, HHH didn't kill him with a clothesline like JBL or Hansen, but he connected stiff.

Plus it wasn't a huge move you'd go out of your way to sell, it was just a clothesline and that's not one of HHH's signature moves like his knees are supposed to be.
Some folks in the comments are saying "oh he's just selling". Like you say he wasn't that type of performer and he actually looks in serious distress outside the ring. It put things in a whole other perspective when you see him in that state. I honestly don't know how he could function - wrestling, travelling, doing media etc when his brain was deteriorating. The match with Hunter dates back to 2005.

Kota Ibushi and Tetsuya Naito need to hold back on the crazy bumps because they'll sadly end up in the same way. I think in their most recent match you could see Kota eyes go glassy when he took the bump on the apron. I've seen it in soccer too when players take a knock and go glassy eyed. Back in the day they'd carry on, but now they have to go off because of what we know about concussions.

WWE should have stopped the match and got Chris some medical attention because how he reacted to the move was concerning. In hindsight if they had the concussion protocol in place back in the day then the tragedy maybe have been prevented. How WWE let Daniel Bryan still wrestle I don't know. It's his choice and they aren't forcing him too but he could go to the Performance centre and coach so he doesn't put himself at future risk of more concussions. With every bump he's taking it's just further upping the risk.

Plus I believe he said he was suffering with seizures too due to the concussions etc so he shouldn't be anywhere near a ring. I get he loves wrestling but his health is more important. Had Chris Benoit realised that something wasn't right and he retired, theres a possibility that the tragedy never happens and he'd definitely be a HOFer and maybe a agent or working with trainees at the PC.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:48 am

After a guy bares his soul about having crippling depression, Seth goes to Sports Illustrated and is all "COME WRESTLE 500 DATES A YEAR PUSSY!" He's been around Vince too long.
And JBL. There was a story where Layfield was picking on Mauro. Seems to like picking on people, guess he didn't learn his lesson when Joey knocked him out.

The company seems to have a real toxic culture running right through it, which of course goes back to Vince himself. But they seem to somehow get away with the bullying etc.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:39 am

Big Boss Man wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:41 am
Bandit wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:33 am
I don't ever remember him selling with his eyes bulged out like that, he was a grimace seller. So something happened there. With so many concussions, getting smacked on the back of the head by a 260 pound man would surely mess him up. I mean, HHH didn't kill him with a clothesline like JBL or Hansen, but he connected stiff.

Plus it wasn't a huge move you'd go out of your way to sell, it was just a clothesline and that's not one of HHH's signature moves like his knees are supposed to be.
Some folks in the comments are saying "oh he's just selling". Like you say he wasn't that type of performer and he actually looks in serious distress outside the ring. It put things in a whole other perspective when you see him in that state. I honestly don't know how he could function - wrestling, travelling, doing media etc when his brain was deteriorating. The match with Hunter dates back to 2005.

Kota Ibushi and Tetsuya Naito need to hold back on the crazy bumps because they'll sadly end up in the same way. I think in their most recent match you could see Kota eyes go glassy when he took the bump on the apron. I've seen it in soccer too when players take a knock and go glassy eyed. Back in the day they'd carry on, but now they have to go off because of what we know about concussions.

WWE should have stopped the match and got Chris some medical attention because how he reacted to the move was concerning. In hindsight if they had the concussion protocol in place back in the day then the tragedy maybe have been prevented. How WWE let Daniel Bryan still wrestle I don't know. It's his choice and they aren't forcing him too but he could go to the Performance centre and coach so he doesn't put himself at future risk of more concussions. With every bump he's taking it's just further upping the risk.
He could be selling, but like I said I have never seen him sell like that before. Daniel Bryan once faked a seizure that scared everyone, but #1 it played into his story of coming back from a bad neck injury (this was before his concussions retired him) and #2 was after taking Sheamus's finisher. Benoit wasn't still doing an angle about his neck since he'd been back two years from neck fusion surgery at this point and just took a simple move. So while I could be wrong (and the extended camera close up could have meant it was planned since they looked ready for it) I think it was probably legit.
Plus I believe he said he was suffering with seizures too due to the concussions etc so he shouldn't be anywhere near a ring. I get he loves wrestling but his health is more important. Had Chris Benoit realised that something wasn't right and he retired, theres a possibility that the tragedy never happens and he'd definitely be a HOFer and maybe a agent or working with trainees at the PC.
This was May 2005, so the damage was probably already done by then. And his autopsy said his heart was so bad from steroids he would have dropped dead like Eddie and Warrior within a year had he lived past June 24th 2007.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:29 am

Reports are saying Fox asked for Jerry Lawler to be a host on the FS1 show starting in October. That's interesting because 1) Vince had a hard-on about getting rid of he and Ross because they looked too old and he wants young people. 2) Also interesting given his well known past with the allegations (which are true because too many people have said it was an open secret in Memphis.) Renee Young was also requested, so hopefully that will get her off of Raw. She's fine as a host and interviewer, but she is the drizzling shits announcing.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:37 pm


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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:52 pm

Also in the Sports Illustrated interview his proof WWE is actually good despite what people say is because they put on more shows than anyone else.

Great I'm going to put a bunch of karaoke videos of myself singing on youtube and tell people I'm clearly the greatest singer in the world because nobody else put out 100 songs in a day.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:43 am

Is Seth a heel now?, I don't get why he's so salty. Unless his new gimmick is "Salty" Seth Rollins and he's going to turn on Bex and side with Lacey and their newest faction member TUGBOAT~! .

Breaking news...the next WWE PPV will be called - WATERWORLD!!. You'll see the galaxies greatest wrestling!, in the ring, in...the... middle... of ...the ...sea!.

See the "Salty Sea Dog" Seth
Rollins, Lacey and TUGBOAT~! vs Becky Lynch, The Big Dog and KEVIN COSTNER~! at Waterworld WWEs wet and wild, 10 hour PPV event with the greatest wrestling in the galaxy!.

OOOOHHH MMYYYYY!, SHIVER MY TIMBERS!!!!

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:39 am

He's Vince's outlet, either intentionally or unintentionally, lashing out that he's not getting his way anymore because there's an alternative. Vince has coasted so long on knowing nothing matters because all he had for competition was inept TNA and ROH on a budget too small to compete. But now a well-funded company actually has momentum (which TNA never did) and has taken three of his guys and actually used them wisely (which TNA never did.)

And in his view (not reality) he has been catering to the smart marks who could be leaving to watch AEW by giving them Daniel Bryan, Seth Rollins, Kofi Kingston, Kevin Owens, AJ Styles, and others, that he normally would never put near the main event because they are under 6'2" and 240 pounds. So in his mind he's thinking "I have been giving you what you say you want but you still want to stop watching?!" He doesn't understand why you'd need Kenny Omega if you already have Seth and Kofi on top.

In Seth's mind he's scared as hell business is dying while he's on top. He's afraid he will be thought of as Diesel in 1995. It wasn't all Kevin Nash's fault, but he was still the guy in the main event when business turned anemic and WCW Monday Nitro became one of the hottest must-see shows on cable. Nash got lucky the nWo was so successful so people just don't think of him as Diesel killing business in awful matches with Mabel. But what if Seth doesn't get his version of an nWo angle and he's just thought of as the guy on top during the launch of AEW? What if history only remembered him for this 3 month long awful Baron Corbin feud? It is a scary thought for him, so he's taking out his anger and Vince's anger on Twitter. If Twitter was around in the summer of 1995 Nash probably would have as well.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:53 am

Thanks, yea that's a very interesting explanation. I don't know if they live in a bubble and have to tow the company line but he seriously can't sit there and honestly think and believe Raw is an exciting three hours of wrestling. Or their four/five hour events can keep fans attention. I think in hindsight if this was the wrestling presented back in the day, I actually doubt I'd have been a fan. It was just so over the top, the characters were larger than life and it just came across as something you had to watch.

If AEW can re-create that I guess you can call it "magic" and reconnect with lapsed fans and/or create new fans that would be really something. With wrestling you have to keep it entertaining and interesting, those aspects are essential. Otherwise it's just, white noise and makes you change the channel. WWE is just real stale and it's because of AEW that fans are finally realising "this sucks, why do I bother watching?"

WWE has to realise there's a major issue. Again it's not really Seth's fault. He's put in matches with guys who aren't connecting with the audience. If he had jumped to AEW instead of Mox, he'd be extolling how great life is outside WWE but him taking shots, it's out of jealously I think. Because in one appearance at DON, Jon Moxley accomplished more than what it would have taken him a year to do in WWE. Had a really good match with Juice in New Japan and will no doubt steal the show with Joey J at Fyter.

It's definitely not the talents fault, the roster is stacked talent wise. Give the guys and girls creative freedom and let them be more "real". Have them adlib and actually create genuine connections with the audience. Roman coming back from Leukemia, he should be the biggest baby-face in the business. Give him the big journey back to the championship, beating the odds, overcoming adversity storyline and the fans would be 110% behind him. Because it's real life, that real human emotion is missing from WWE.

It comes across as too manufactured and cookie cutter. They had one of the best sports broadcasters ever in Mauro and he's on your third brand. Bring him back in as your top announcer and have him call the shows organically. Don't have Vince barking in his ear. That robotic, monotone announce team are very detrimental to the product too. WWF had some great announcers in the past who added a ton to the product

You brought up Renee being a good host but shes the opposite as an announcer. It's because of how little freedom the announcers have and how they can't really show any real emotion because it's far too scripted. Night and day difference between Renee on Raw and Talking Smack and when she co hosted WWE Vintage with Mean Gene.

WWEs issues are easily fixable though. No Shane O, Corbin, McIntyre etc. Give the talent more creative freedom, give fans believable storyline arcs, push talent who fans are actually getting behind so you're not forcing guys and girls into top spot when the fans aren't into them. Less reliance on the older stars too because they've become what they made fun of WCW doing. Putting older guys in the main events. Plus above all, bring that "magic" back where you're transfixed by the product and don't want to change the channel and can't wait to see next week's show.

Again if AEW can do that, they've got a very bright future ahead.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:37 am

With the scripting, Vince does that to try to make sure people just get hot to a point. It was inspired because he hated the situation The Rock put him in by becoming bigger than WWE so he now had control and could leave anytime he wanted for Hollywood. The same way how Dana White hates how big Conor McGregor has gotten because he can't control him. So Vince decided he'd rather max out in popularity with John Cena than maybe create someone who becomes so big they can have control. Vince was also burned by Steve Austin quitting around the same time it was clear Rock was heading to Hollywood.

Now, I don't think they've had anybody who ever compared to the star level Dwayne Johnson has because he was born with that. I don't think guys they stifled like CM Punk, Zack Ryder, Damien Sandow, Wade Barrett, The Revival, etc. were going to be giving them 1999 TV ratings. And I don't think if they'd done right with Dean Ambrose and Cody Rhodes they would either. I think what set them up is having something to build on by having left. Just like Steve Austin had something to build on when he left WCW in 1995 and never would have created Stone Cold if he'd stayed. But things would be a hell of a lot better, no question.

And now with Jon Moxley and to an extent Cody getting so over by letting it be known they now create what they say, it appears Vince's scripting to prevent people getting over past a level is backfiring. But like I said before, he was not prepared for this. He thought nobody would ever try to get into the wrestling business at this level again because remembering WCW dying and the mess TNA was would scare people off. Vince was only prepared for wrestlers to go into MMA. He could write that off as "Oh well, that's not our business." But now people will leave and it is his business. And he looks bad throwing so much money at them and being told they'd rather take less money and be happy than stay.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Ocelot » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:30 am

Here's my take, for whatever it's worth.

Something that I see not referenced too much is the sheer amount of *LIFE* and devotion the WWE demands. You basically are constantly on the clock. Your life is under a microscope. Everything you put on your body, everywhere you go, nearly everything you write, do, and say is being closely monitored. That's simply not healthy, and it makes for an incredibly toxic working enviroment where you have a company basically starting to wholesale consume itself because it lives in a bubble and doesn't know how to interact with the outside world. That's what you're seeing here with the WWE versus everyone else. I don't think Vince at all realizes how bad everything is. He sees Seth and co' sending out their twitters and defending the WWE with what I'm sure he thinks is passion and devotion to the company but comes off to everyone else as blindness and desperation.

There is that within the WWE that is starting to remind me of a cult in the way its talent are treated and the amount of time and devotion its people are expected to laud into what is a company starting to drown and not realizing it, and I fear for the future of the employees there over the next few years. I really do.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:18 am

It's always been cultish because Vince wants it to be. The WCW guys never talk like that in shoot interviews, it was just business to them. But since it's Vince's life it's your life too if you work there. Crockett, Herd and Bischoff weren't 24/7/365 workers like Vince is. I think Eric talks about taking vacations quite a bit when he was running WCW. Vince works less than he did, but he used to only take Thanksgiving if they weren't doing Survivor Series in the 80s and Christmas Day off. So everyone else had to as well. I don't think AEW will be like WWE since Tony Khan has 3 other jobs so he's not going to keep the office opened until 3 am like Vince does. And unless everyone moves to Jacksonville you'd have the Bucks in California, Cody in Atlanta and Kenny in Canada so they can just Skype meetings or whatever.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:05 am


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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:08 am

Image

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:29 am

They're scared.

Paul may be good. Eric is useless besides being very good on camera as a heel. But he's a one trick pony. It's like with Bill Watts coming back to WCW where he's going to remember his prime and think that's still going to draw. We saw when he took over TNA he's never evolved past an Invasion angle and putting Hogan on TV. Paul follows modern pop culture so he won't be stuck in the past as much. But he's still a 50 year old now competing with 30 year olds on what's cool. He's the same age Vince was in 1995 when WWF was out of touch and Paul was the cool guy the same age The Elite is now. So his role is reversed. But the promos will be better for sure.

And remember the key: they report to Vince. I'm not convinced yet anybody can get past that road block. If he wants Baron on 25% of the show then Baron will be on the show. Paul fought with him on Smackdown for 2 years and in WWECW for 6 months. He quit twice because Vince wouldn't allow what he wanted (he wanted Benoit, Eddie and Rey on top of Smackdown and CM Punk to be WWECW champion.) Vince will always be Vince.

And with Eric, 1998 was a lifetime ago. If I'm in charge of a record label I'm not going to sign Smash Mouth to write me a hit for 2019.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:24 am



He said yesterday the issue would be out at 10 am. Same time the news broke. Poor guy has to re-write the issue.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:31 am

Vince Panic #1: Bring back Bruce Prichard.

Vince Panic #2: Bring back Heyman and Bischoff.

Vince Panic in 2020:

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