All Elite Wrestling Thread (Full Gear Nov 9th) AEDub!

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Big Boss Man
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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:51 am

Thats an interesting take. With MJF he reminds me more of a Bobby Heenan type who is the mouthpiece for his faction and who winds up the babyfaces and then when he wrestles it's a big deal.

In MLW, he's part of The Dynasty where the spotlight is really on Alexander Hammerstone because he has more of an imposing presence. MJF, is great on the mic and he'll only improve, so I'd switch out Alex Marvez for him so he has as much presence as possible.

I have a feeling if he gets over with the mainstream once AEW is on TNT they'll turn him face or he'll be a tweener. But really you have to keep him as a heel. I would have him more so as a jack of all trades - announcer, manager and wrestler. If he had the presence of say Brusier Brody then I'd give him the lone wolf heel gimmick. But he comes across more so a hybrid of Gino Hernandez, Tully Blanchard, mixed with some Larry Sweeney.

He could be a licence to print money for AEW if they find the right storyline trajectory for him. I don't know if in ring he has it yet to be your #1 heel who can go 30 + minutes against Kenny Omega et al. If he improves in ring and even make his heel schtick more menacing then he'd be seen as certainly credible as top heel.

There's that danger he can fall into comedy territory if you job him out too often which is why I'd have him lead up a faction, be on the announce team rooting for his guys and then you bring him
In for tags/six mans so when he does wrestle it means something. I'd actually start him out feuding with Jungle Boy and Luchasauras instead of throwing him in the deep end already with Hangman.

Speaking of Hangman, he's another they need to build up gradually. Ideally they should have had Omega and Jericho feuding for the belt, or better yet a G1 style tournament to crown the first champion. Then each year they have a G1 style tournament to crown the #1 contender to go up against the AEW world champion.

That way fans can track wins and losses and you can see a wrestlers journey to the championship. So say year 1, Jericho is champion and Kenny wins the tournament. Year 2 you go with Hangman, year 3 you go with say Marty if he's part of AEW or go for a underdog winning like Jungle Boy. So you have that build where you're making new stars with their performances.

Another guy who I would bring in is Brian Cage. He can go and you can make him AEWs version of Goldberg. Pair him with MJF and/or put him in his faction to go up against Kenny, Cody, The Bucks and Hangman in a War Games style match. I would also have Marty as a heel if he's coming in. There's a ton of mileage with him wanting to get revenge on The Elite for leaving him behind. I'd also actually turn Kenny who I think as a heel is much more 3 dimensional as a character. Then have him turn on the Bucks & Cody for not letting him stay in Japan with Kota.

There's a lot of really cool stuff they could do in AEW and much it must see TV and bring back the unpredictable and fun aspects back to wrestling again.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:30 am

You need to establish MJF on his own first before he'd be a mouthpiece for someone else because if he doesn't then he's going to be thought of as Enzo. The big guy like Brian Cage would be the focus like Cass was.

I've seen his stuff in MLW and don't think they use him right. CZW booked him correctly as not associating with others because he's such a prick nobody wants to be around him and he thinks he's above everyone else anyway.

The stuff of being Cody's fake friend is good. But I wouldn't put him with Cage for quite a while. And if he's on commentary then you run the risk of turning him into Jerry Lawler in the 90s. Have him on occasionally but not 2 hours every week.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Ocelot » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:00 am

MJF has too much in ring potential to be wasted as a manager. Kid is money.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:07 am



And his friend looks like a Stunt brother.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:58 am

Apparently people in New Japan were mad when Dave Meltzer brought up Kenny and AEW at their press conference to Ibushi. They're apparently still very angry at how Omega left on short notice. In Japanese business culture that was very disrespectful.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:37 am

Bandit wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:58 am
Apparently people in New Japan were mad when Dave Meltzer brought up Kenny and AEW at their press conference to Ibushi. They're apparently still very angry at how Omega left on short notice. In Japanese business culture that was very disrespectful.
Yea that's very likely why New Japan might not do business with AEW. They are definitely very high on doing things the right way and it's a highly respectful culture, especially in business, so they were likely actually offended with how Kenny left for AEW. I think Kota feels similar too going by the tone of the interviews he did with New Japan website and Tokyo Sports. Although from what I heard they all left on good terms (at least Cody, Bucks, Hangman) with the door possibly open for a return. Shame if they don't bring Kenny back in as I'm sure since he is a Japanese citizen and having worked in Japan for 10+ years he would be very conversant with how they operate business wise. Plus I doubt him going was him showing any disrespect to NJ. Ideally they should have had him as NJ exclusive talent who does the big AEW PPVs. So he comes in as their star attraction and New Japan keep hold of one of their marquee stars where he's arguably had his best match performances.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:59 am

The others leaving was easier because they didn't have plans for them. Gedo books far in advance for main event angles so had to throw away his entire story of Omega to hotshot Jay White becoming champion (which was risky because it may have ruined him being seen as credible in the future) to get the belt back to Okada. So Gedo is mad like "Why did I even take the belt from Okada?" Rumors were Omega was also kind of a dick about leaving when he told them he was leaving because he hated Harold Meiji. But Meiji has apparently calmed down and people don't mind him anymore. He was just excited to be running the promotion and was kind of too pushy. People thought he was going to be the new Jim Herd but he isn't, he's listening to Gedo and they've had a pretty good year in both quality and drawing money. So Omega in hindsight could have left on better terms and been happy to do business with him now. Granted, they will not be dumping ROH for AEW anytime soon. But Kenny could have gotten a Jericho role there that he can't now.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:21 pm

Yea with Jay I read they gave him the angle(s) which were specifically written for Kenny. Switchblades rise to IWGP champion was definitely rushed, but I think if you book him cleverly enough he'll be able to bounce back to be seen as credible again as a challenger and champion.

It almost seems they've forgotten that period already as the belt has gone from Tana to Jay to Okada again so in theory back to where they started. I don't think Kenny is totally done with NJ. He tweeted about the G1 and if the US attendances continue to be low reaching out to him and The Elite would certainly help New Japan in selling out shows. But unless NJPW is forgiving and wants to form a partnership with AEW then that's not going to benefit either side. I know they are loyal to ROH but working with AEW when they start on TNT, it opens up the doors to getting their New Japan talent being seen by millions not just in the USA, but the UK and other countries that will air their weekly show.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:54 pm

The attendance looked bad because they were in a giant arena (because Mark Cuban asked them to run it) but it wasn't as terrible when you compare the other US shows besides MSG.

7/1/17: 2,370
3/25/18: 4,372
7/7/18: 6,333
9/30/18: 3,007
4/6/19: 16,534
7/6/19: 4,846

Take out MSG, which was different from being on Wrestlemania weekend which had 70,000 wrestling fans traveling to New York and lots attending various other shows, and it was their second biggest show and bigger than several with The Elite on it. And it was in line with Fyter Fest attendance and may out draw Fight For the Fallen. That's being held in a 5,000 seat venue and tickets are not sold out as of a few days ago. But that would be two Florida shows close together so that's hard to sell. And the build to this isn't great, it's just the Young Bucks mocking a line from a guy everyone knows they're friends with, so there's no heat there.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:16 am

My point was more so it's a card stacked with huge names yet the fans didn't go out and see it. New Japan deserves bigger audiences and to be selling out arenas because their product is arguably the most superior out there right now.

With AEW, there is a real danger that the goodwill they've built up can dissipate. I think they'd all agree Fyter was a misstep and to be learned from. They're not going to hit a homerun with every show, so it's best to learn from their mistakes and not repeat them.

I still think they're undecided what they want to be. Are they serious, more sport centric like NJ or are they comedy like PWG/DDT, or a combination of both?. A lot of the comedy hasn't paid off and they should keep that on BTE. I don't think they've decided who their #1 guy is yet either. I assume it's Hangman, but in theory it should be Kenny since he is the guy with a 7 star match and was a huge free agency signing.

I'm not getting much of a sense of direction yet either and maybe once they hit TNT that'll change. I said from the beginning I'm rooting for these guys and AEW to succeed. But they have to really ramp it up now and make FFTF and All Out great shows. Then once they are on TNT make these shows the best they can.

It seems fans attention is turning back to WWE with Paul E and Bisch coming back in. AEW now has to really decide what their end goal is. Do they want to be a footnote in wrestling history or do they really want to change the (wrestling) world.

They can put huge pressure on WWE to the betterment of the industry and give the fans quality shows across the board. It's all about living up to their promises now and to really put 110% into their product. They have to to even compete with WWE. Having millions at their disposal doesn't guarantee them success and to be the premiere organisation. They need to earn it and DON was a great start but FF was a big misstep. The parody aspect made them look inept and some of the decisions they made like the chair spot were mistakes.

Just put out the best matches you can and compelling stories. The Bucks making fun of Cody and Dustin is counter productive since that was a genuine moment which should be respected in terms of the overall message AEW wants to put out there. Which is they are a true alternative product to WWE.

They got WWE shook but seems they've taken their foot off the gas quite considerably. Signing Mox was huge and they should have had him in as much AEW related promotional material/videos etc out there. Notice how many viewers the BTE episode is in has, which shows he can be a massive deal for AEW.

As good as Kenny is, they should build the company around someone like Mox who's more well known. He can be their Hogan who can bring them to a wider mainstream audience. AEW in October have a gigantic opportunity to really level the playing field and be a genuine competitor to WWE. But they need to decide what direction they want to go in, how their guy is going to be and if they really want to go at Vince & WWE they have to step their game up to the nth degree.

Because once competition gets serious they'll pull out all the stops. If they don't go all out then there's a danger they'll just be seen as a footnote in wrestling history. They don't want to be another TNA or ECW, or even WCW. They ideally want to be another WWE in terms of global reach with their TV, worldwide fan base and how they are still ingrained in the mainstream to a degree, be it as references to WWF.

Because you can put out the best product but unless people see it you'll just be seen as underground, or an indie. AEW needs to really hit it out of the park with every future show and forget about Fyter and keep the comedic stuff for BTE. Because there's a real risk they'll fall into parody itself and WWE will just capitalise on their mistakes.

Back in January the interest level was huge, after DON there was excitement and a genuine buzz but right now it's more so about WWE again and the G1. With Fight for the Fallen it's their opportunity to turn fan support 110% back in their favour and keep that momentum going into All Out and especially TV.

They'll sink or swim on TNT and they don't just have to want to keep WWE on their toes it's a necessity they are, if they truly want to be an alternative. I'm rooting for AEW to succeed and exceed expectations so hopefully the misstep with FyterFest is just a blip. They can remedy that easy though by making FFTF a great show and really make All Out even better than Double or Nothing.

They can't coast or rest on their laurels at all now. They have to bring their A+ game at all times. I still think a New Japan partnership would really put them on another level since you'd have a lot of great talent available. Think what a Okada/Omega match would do on their first TNT show. Would have been the equivalent of Forrest/Stephan did for the UFC.

Otherwise they still have a strong roster it's just finding the right roles for them and the overall direction and goals they are going for. If they want to be the #1 it will take much, more work than WCW put in. Times have changed so much in terms of choice for consumers. They'll need to put on a must see TV product out of the gate and continue that week by week. They can't rest at all like I've said as soon as WWE feels threatened they'll pull out all the stops to put themselves back to #1 position.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:29 am

Jericho is the #1 guy to build Kenny and Hangman in America. Moxley might be #2, but they're doing a slower build with him. Maybe they will have Moxley beat Jericho for the title. It would be bigger than Page doing it, or even Omega, but then they run the risk of being TNA circa 2007 where every title holder was in WWE and all the home grown guys like AJ, Joe and Abyss were treated like lower rung.

I am sure The Elite and Tony know how big of a mistake that was and don't set out to do it. But it's so tempting when you're trying to make money to go for the easier short term success. Dusty was guilty of doing this in JCP where it was so much easier to just make a main event with himself and Flair he was neglecting bringing others up. He probably realized this later and told Cody hopefully. But with the way MJF and Jungle Boy have been put in good spots to get over, it does look like they're thinking about the future. But when you have TV ratings and an arena to fill every week, things may be different.

But I wouldn't be considering the NJPW partnership is ever going to happen. Japanese culture of loyalty is the road block, and you can't change how they believe. In their country once you make a business pact you keep it. Think about All Japan and AWA.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:23 am

Very good points. With their EVP positions it makes it real easy for critics to say they are vanity booking themselves into the top positions. But the fact is they are the draws and who the fans will buy tickets to see and they move tons of merch. So it makes the most sense for them to be on top. But they do need Jungle Boy, MJF etc as guys who can step up to the next level. I think Jungle Boy and Luchasarus are money if you market them to a younger fan base.

Yea I think Chris Jericho has to hold the belt going into the TNT shows. Then they can always down the line switch the title to Mox, although as you've pointed out there's that danger they make WWE look strong by putting the belts on the former WWE guys.

Once ratings come in and they can break them down into demographics and see what segments are highest rated they can make decisions regarding how Kenny, Cody, Hangman etc are getting over. I wouldn't be against Cody being World champion but then you'd get critics being negative about it, but you could then have MJF turn fully heel on Cody and say he paid Shawn Spears off to injure him etc so you've got a solid feud there and you can involve The Elite too and that's the point about a faction for MJF, so he they can feud with the Elite.

Yea I think if the NJPW partnership is ever a go they have to talk it out. They must have a somewhat OK relationship otherwise they'd say we don't want to work with Mox and Jericho because they're signed to AEW. Plus they have to think business wise if they are getting good ratings on TNT and internationally then whilst loyalty is super important to them they should realise that potentially it opens up a lot of doors for them with how their own product could benefit.

I think it's certainly a very interesting road AEW have ahead. It's a shame they've not got a guiding hand to help them avoid any pitfalls. Because once they're on TNT they can't really afford to fail because this is the best showcase and platform they can have. They do seem smart enough to listen to the fan base though and are much more in tune with them too.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:23 am

New BTE~!


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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:13 am

Leva Bates is awful. She recites lines like a mediocre porn actress. I thought the scene was going to end with her fucking the Young Bucks for her job.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:04 am


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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Ocelot » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:37 pm

Bandit wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:13 am
Leva Bates is awful. She recites lines like a mediocre porn actress. I thought the scene was going to end with her fucking the Young Bucks for her job.
Ocelot's insightful, meticulously thought out commentary:

I would still smash her like the Sandman smashed beers on his forehead at the ECDUB arena.

Thank you for your time.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:27 pm



Chris has one with the Bucks coming up soon too

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:33 am

Ocelot wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:37 pm
Bandit wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:13 am
Leva Bates is awful. She recites lines like a mediocre porn actress. I thought the scene was going to end with her fucking the Young Bucks for her job.
Ocelot's insightful, meticulously thought out commentary:

I would still smash her like the Sandman smashed beers on his forehead at the ECDUB arena.

Thank you for your time.
The porn would be called Superdick Party.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:25 am


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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:32 am

Too bad the build sucks. The match will be very good, but they're giving you no reason to have heat for it.

It's a good card, though.

-Rhodes Bros vs Young Bucks
-Kenny Omega vs CIMA
-SCU vs Lucha Bros
-Allie vs Brandi
-Hangman Page vs Kip Sabian
-Janela, Havoc & Allin vs Spears, MJF & Guevara

So it will probably be better than Fyter Fest. I think they got the message they need to dial down the comedy and keep it on BTE. Brandi vs Allie could be -*****.

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