All Elite Wrestling Thread (All Out August 31st) AEDub!

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:15 am










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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:16 am


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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:29 am

AEW need to reassess their announcing situation. Majority of the criticisms of FFTF is the announcing not being up to par. Personally I would go with Don and Kevin, but it's unlikely to happen because New Japan and Don is part of Impact.

Tony Schivaone I think will be back announcing a few MLW shows soon and he'd be very high on the list but he has other commitments. Joey Styles, but for me he's synonymous with ECW. Jim Ross I think would be better suited teaching and tutoring Excalibur. Alex seems out of place and would be better doing segments like he did with the By the Numbers thing he did in one of the buildup videos.

Another guy I'd definitely hire who could be the voice of AEW like Joey was with ECW is Mauro. But he's still part of NXT etc but he'd be a big, important addition since he would really put over the sports aspect they want to go for.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:50 am

The announcing problem is really just one guy isn't any good. Excalibur is fine and I don't recall any issues with Ross last night. Ross and Excalibur don't have chemistry, but they're only three shows in so I wouldn't panic yet. But Marvez is an issue. He was Male Renee last night. But in 3 months of weekly TV maybe he'd figure out something.

Joey isn't good anymore and Mauro is probably signed for years. Callis will be with Impact at least another year.

But the weak booking is AEW's problem. Good wrestling, boring angles.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:55 pm

For me, when you're pushing AEW as the younger, cooler alternative you need to reflect the fact across the board. Once they hit TNT everything has to be on point. JR put some very interesting points across with Chris in terms of how great announcing can add to the product. Which is true, think of any of the best moments in wrestling history and the calls are 9 times out of 10 add a lot to what makes them great.

There's unfortunately a lack of good announcers out there nowadays, a lot of the WWE ones only know one way which is be told what to say. Chris Jericho said his promo was all off the cuff, no script and that's an issue with WWE, everything is so micromanaged, down to the announcing. So ideally AEW needs a great announcer who wasn't taught the WWE way and who can call on the fly so it comes across as organic.

As for the situation right now, MJF has an elbow injury so why not put him on with Excalibur whilst he's healing up. I don't believe it will diminish him as a draw, plus it doesn't have to be long term just til they sort the announcing situation out.

Yea booking is scattershot. But that's the downside of having no real creative team. They are doing too much themselves. Dustin said Cody doesn't really sleep because he's so consumed with AEW. So whilst they were against it, they do need a creative consultant at least for them to bounce ideas off.

I wouldn't be against them cross promoting with MLW so you could have Harts v The Dynasty, Filthy Tom teaming up with Kenny, Cody and Dustin feuding with Contra or if not MLW, Impact. Then they can bring Don on board as announcer as the Impact announcer and Excalibur for AEW.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Hawq » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:38 pm

well that was one pretty long but very entertaining ppv, better than the other guys same night effort (though a rotting donkey carcas probably woulda been) dont recall much bad about it really so pretty much all positive

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:46 pm

If the announcing lacks they can cope with that. Remember Nitro had Mongo and Bischoff who were terrible and AEW's booth is way better than them. What they can't have is booking that doesn't interest anybody. They have great wrestling in the main event area, but it's still not as good as New Japan is. Their booking is nowhere near as good either so far. New Japan doesn't do traditional American "male soap opera" angles, but the stuff is still more compelling than anything AEW has done with Young Bucks beating a joke into the ground or the Shawn Spears heel turn. Spears turning in a few months would have been fine. But you have to be a huge smark to know he helped Cody when they were in OVW and an even bigger smark to understand calling someone "a good hand" is an insult. So doing a "friend feels top guy looks down on him" is a great angle that has drawn huge before. But they did an awful job making fans understand.

I think the problem is The Elite are too close to the talent to book objectively. Spears is close friends with Cody so Cody wants to help make him a star. The Bucks are close friends with Peter Avalon so aren't going to want to take him off of TV if The Librarians are a ratings disaster (which they probably will be.) Omega is close friends with Riho, so if the Joshi matches don't draw he isn't going to want to cut ties with STARDOM. They're also in a bad position of if they book themselves to win too much people will complain, but if they book themselves too weakly that would also be bad because they're their own top draws besides Jericho and Moxley.

The problem is there's nobody to hire. Heyman is never coming, Gedo would never consider the job since he doesn't want to leave Japan and hates Omega right now, Ross said he doesn't want the job, those gazillion ex-WWE writers are just going to make them WWE Lite, Jerry Lawler has been out of the game for too long to know what to book nationally in 2019, Kevin Sullivan is with MLW, D'Amore is with Impact, Cornette has talked too much shit to come in to book, Russo would be awful, Dreamer is with Impact, it wouldn't be wise signing Hall or Nash since they're too close to HHH so there's trust issues, Konnan is with AAA. Jake Roberts maybe but like Lawler he's been out of wrestling for so long I don't know if he'd ever understand their vision of what wrestling in 2019 should be. I'm sure Jake could come up with good ideas here and there, but he's never booked an entire weekly show so you'd be asking too much of him when what they want is different from how he would want an 1980s mentality show. So, yeah, that just leaves themselves.

I've always seen the complaint BTE is just an excuse to do a bunch of in-jokes with their friends. But it's been strong enough to deflect that criticism. AEW hasn't been so far. So "hey, cheer for Brandon Cutler because he's a nice guy and our friend" is going to be more of an issue than it is on a youtube show. Now giving time to a guy the fans don't care about is eating into very valuable TV time someone who could draw money would be being deprived.

I hope I'm wrong and they're just half assing things until October. But they haven't done anything compelling besides the wrestling quality and one MJF promo over the last two shows. Still better than most of WWE, but that may not be enough once the honeymoon period ends with fans.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:32 am

Very good points. AEWs strongest selling point right now is that the majority of wrestling fans want to support the product and see them succeed. There's just things they need to finetune. Announcing, storylines, issues with pacing/timing can be remedied. I do believe they need a guiding hand but no one is really out there. Which is a bad look on WWEs part as since they bought out WCW in 2001 they've had a clear playing field and no real superstar level talent in the free agency market, same with announcers/bookers/creative.

There's a dearth of talent because of WWEs lackadaisical approach to how they do business. If we go back to say 1988 or 1998 imagine if Shadid and Tony set up AEW then the talent roster they could have assembled, which goes across the board. Now it's much more harder but I think on the whole their acquisitions have been good. You've got guys like Darby, Joey J, Jimmy Havoc etc who bring something different to the product you wouldn't find in WWE, so they've got some real unsung elements they can factor into the equation to make AEW a genuine alternative.

They have a long way to go but the fans have to give them time. It's going to be very interesting in October how WWE responds especially if their first show hits it out of the park. But AEW has to 110% focus on their own product and ignore WWE. I think they need to reassess certain areas now and nix anything that's not clicking. Going into TNT everything needs to be set in stone so there's a clear path they want to follow. Hangman being champ right now I think is a mistake, have him lose and build him back up. Kenny needs some opponents to really shine like he did for NJ. Maybe one of the OWE guys will step up to the plate to put on a spectacle. I also think he's missing Japan (and likely Kota) which is why his performances havent been up to his usual high standard.

There's been more positives than bad, but, they need to continue with the forward momentum and can't afford another misstep like arguably FyterFest was. Because the fans will turn on them due to the wrestling businesses very fickle nature. Although they have to remember not every match had to be a 5 star classic and you need certain things to occur to click everything into place. Everyone on the roster has to be integral to the storylines they have and above all they shouldn't hotshot book or insult the fans intelligence. I think already they are listening to the audience and that's a very smart move. They can't have Hangman be their Roman where he's forced on the audience. Let that build organically and see who the fans get behind. Not the smart marks liking someone just to troll, but who the fans actually connect with and want to root for. With their uncomplicated booking style it's actually smart since they can be very open to booking on the fly. Say Lucha and Jungle Boy really get over with the audience put the tag belts on them whereas if you had it set it stone the tags are either on the Bucks or Lucha Bros it would mess up the whole booking dynamics. It's really paramount they listen to their audience and not totally cater to them but be receptive to how they respond to certain talent. I think once they've got their first TNT show in the books they'll be set then. It's just there are some issues that need addressing. They aren't huge issues but ones that they have to fix even before All Out I believe. There should be a pattern where each show is on par or better than the next. Raise the bar high and try and exceed it has to be the way to go.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:18 am

The roster isn't the issue, most are very talented. And the ones who aren't that great like Sonny Kiss show potential at least. Dustin is making him his project, and he has tons of charisma and great athleticism, so if he learns how to work he could be very good. Avalon and Cutler as Jobber To The Stars types would be fine. But the rest of the matches were very good. They're not as good as New Japan who are in the middle of the best part of their year, but I enjoyed most of it. I thought Omega and Cima was great. I highly enjoyed SCU vs Lucha Bros. The Bucks and Rhodes Boys was 10 minutes too long, but still good. But G1 is having 3 classics every night so they can't compete right now. But nobody can.

It's just some early mistakes that have me questioning. Like I said a slow build Cody vs Spears would be good. If it was done like Hogan and Orndorff. But it doesn't make sense unless you're a Level 10 smarky smark smark like us on BG who knows Cody's entire career history and booker lingo. That's not enough people to make TNT and ITV happy

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Ocelot » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:52 am

Luchasaurus can be their Undertaker. Let him work that gimmick a little longer, then find a ways to shift it into something a bit more serious. Dude has *IT*.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:26 am

Yes, he was one of the last guys who was a Dusty project before he passed away. So it's funny Cornette shits on him when Dusty co-created the gimmick with him and he loves Dusty so much. Having Dusty's blessing is like having The Pope blessing. So his last two projects (also CJ Parker aka Juice Robinson) will be major stars in a few years.

Also Jungle Boy is going to be major. They're like the Broken Hardys where their gimmicks are so ridiculous they're brilliant. Marko Stunt in their stable could work as well. The whole "everything has to be deathly serious" Cornette shit isn't true. People like campy gimmicks if they're done right. And so far A Boy And His Dinosaur is well done camp.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:21 pm

But it doesn't make sense unless you're a Level 10 smarky smark smark like us on BG who knows Cody's entire career history and booker lingo. That's not enough people to make TNT and ITV happy
Since majority of their audience right now are the IWC/smarks they have to ideally book towards appeasing them. Whereas in the grander scheme of things the product is such that if you're channel surfing and come across AEW it has to grab your attention. Multilayered complex storylines won't appeal to the lapsed fan/mainstream.

I'd follow more so the UFC mold where it comes to building storylines/feuds. For example, Something like Kenny turning on the Bucks and Cody for taking him away from Japan could be compelling but you need to make the audience conversant with Kennys time there. Everything they do story wise has to have logic and meaning.

In ring, they can't really compete with NJ. They are in a class of their own, plus it's not just the main roster who can go, its across the board there. Talent wise, AEW has a mixture of different in ring styles and characters. It's just putting these pieces of the puzzle together so everything has a purpose and makes logical sense. Match timings and are an issue too, so they don't run too long.

I would also switch it up with the false finishes so when they hit the finisher it actually means something and you can play offence around it. If we use Hangman as an example target his arm so he can't use the Lariat or target the Bucks legs so they can't hit the Superkick. Because tons of false finishes a match won't really draw in the mainstream or lapsed fan who are used to seeing the old style product. Maybe if each talent had like a "super" finisher where they hit it just the one time and it decides the match might make finishers mean more like they used to. Say if someone kicked out of Hogans leg drop etc that was a huge deal.

I definitely agree Luchasarus and Jungle Boy could be breakout stars. They could even slowly expand on their characters overtime too so they're not just a comedy gimmick.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:22 pm

New BTE~!


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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:34 pm

You can book for smark audiences and not have it be confusing. Heyman was good at it.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (Fight for the fallen 13-7-19) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:19 am

I was referring to booking for smart marks in such a way it alienates the mainstream audience. For the criticism WWE gets (justified in most cases) having a former UFC heavyweight champion as WWE champion makes the most logical sense since he has the credentials to back it up.

Anything the guys do booking wise when TNT starts, they have to think how would a non fan think about it, would they tune out if ... is champion, would they like this storyline etc. So overall there has to be that general consensus that the product they put out could potentially be seen by a big audience.

If they're putting out product just to appease the smarks that would be counter productive. I mean there's mixed opinions out there whether Hangman should beat Jericho or because of his name value Chris comes into the first TNT show as AEW world champion. So that type of thing they need to make the most logical decision and both options have their pros and cons.

With Hangman, they can play on his knee injury etc and have a redemption story where he eventually wins the belt. But if Chris Jericho loses he's left in a situation where he has to climb the ladder again and for a heel to do that the audience won't have much interest in seeing him prevail to have another shot when there's Kenny, Cody etc who can challenge for the belt.

So really and this goes back to my original point although the smart marks might balk at it, logic really suggests the first AEW champion needs to be Chris Jericho. Since there's more options storyline wise. Then when he does lose he can have a leave of absence to tour etc and when he comes back again he's a fresh revitalised character.

It's more so like the old territory days when after talent has cycled through the doors, new talent comes in. With the sports centric vibe they are going for I like the idea of an off season, even if it's a month or two and then they go again. Would make wins/losses mean something and the top two of each respective division challenge the champion at the PPV, then you could even use a playoff type format where the 8th ranked seed could make it to the "final" and become world champion.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (All Out August 31st) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:49 am


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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (All Out August 31st) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:50 am


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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (All Out August 31st) AEDub!

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:53 pm


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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (All Out August 31st) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:47 am

That was very good. If this is the way they will present angles on TV it will be different from WWE and stand out because that felt more "real" than how Raw does things.

Also FOX held a meeting with WWE and it seems like NXT will be on FS1 head to head with AEW Wednesday. Crazy the Wednesday Night War is going to be Adam Cole vs Chris Jericho. Who would have thought when Chris quit WCW he was one day going to be the Hulk Hogan type figure on TNT. Life is so unpredictable.

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Re: All Elite Wrestling Thread (All Out August 31st) AEDub!

Post by Bandit » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:56 am



Conrad breaking out the dough.

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