Almost 20 years since Beyond the Mat came out

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Big Boss Man
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Almost 20 years since Beyond the Mat came out

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:06 pm



Been years since I've seen it in full. I believe the US version has additional content on the DVD too. Back in the day it was hyped up as the movie the WWF tried to ban etc. From a 2018 perspective this is still rather eye opening behind the scenes look at the industry. For me the Jake parts of the movie were depressing, especially him meeting up with his daughter. Paul E rallying the troops so to speak before the Barely Legal PPV was a cool bit, Cactus having his head smashed in by the chair with the perspective of his Wife & family was difficult to watch, always found it weird Rock never checked up on him. The Droz part is probably the most funny part but even that comes across weirdly. New Jack the actor was a good part too. The Terry Funk parts of the movie are probably my favourite and he comes across well. That covers his 50 years of Funk retirement show if I'm correct.

But yea on the whole its mostly a movie that shines a negative light on the business so I can see why Vince & co wanted it banned.

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Re: Almost 20 years since Beyond the Mat came out

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:37 pm

I haven't seen it for a fair while. It was good back when it came out. The wrestling industry has changed so much since it was made that it probably isn't that relevant to today's product.

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Re: Almost 20 years since Beyond the Mat came out

Post by Bandit » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:44 pm

always found it weird Rock never checked up on him.
He did, it's on the director's cut. Rock comes in to let the kids know it was a work, Foley says something like "Didn't you see me turn my back to you?" and Rock said something like they'd planned to end the spot in a different position so he kept going until Foley turned his back the second time. If Mick said Rock didn't then he forgot due to the head trauma. Maybe what he meant was he came in late to check on him, because in the scene Rock has showered and is in street clothes (Mick is still in the wrestling gear) so maybe it was a case where someone had to ask that he talk to him that made him mad. But they definitely talked.

The director's cut wasn't much. The director has said he has enough good footage for another movie but IIRC the DVD only had 4 extra minutes (interviews with Al Snow and Justin Credible about rebuilding in ECW, Afa talking about young Vince firing him for leaving to see his son born, Vince talking about firing Koko, Meltzer talking about wrestlers view of Vince, Rock talking to Foley after Royal Rumble)

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Re: Almost 20 years since Beyond the Mat came out

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:42 pm

Bandit wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:44 pm
always found it weird Rock never checked up on him.
He did, it's on the director's cut. Rock comes in to let the kids know it was a work, Foley says something like "Didn't you see me turn my back to you?" and Rock said something like they'd planned to end the spot in a different position so he kept going until Foley turned his back the second time. If Mick said Rock didn't then he forgot due to the head trauma. Maybe what he meant was he came in late to check on him, because in the scene Rock has showered and is in street clothes (Mick is still in the wrestling gear) so maybe it was a case where someone had to ask that he talk to him that made him mad. But they definitely talked.

The director's cut wasn't much. The director has said he has enough good footage for another movie but IIRC the DVD only had 4 extra minutes (interviews with Al Snow and Justin Credible about rebuilding in ECW, Afa talking about young Vince firing him for leaving to see his son born, Vince talking about firing Koko, Meltzer talking about wrestlers view of Vince, Rock talking to Foley after Royal Rumble)
OK thanks. We only got the normal version here on VHS and DVD which is why I didn't see Rocky talking to Mick. Its something in the narrative of the story thats important & they should have included in the normal version.

Also good point Zoidy about the industry changing. The guys and girls don't take unprotected chair shots to the head now which is a good thing. Cactus took how many? 15/16 unprotected? and Rock was swinging for the fences too they weren't feeble chair shots. In hindsight its a match that just was weird, the taped "I quit,I quit"they could have used that audio much sooner and saved him getting his head caved in. That's one match I've only really watched about once since the 99 Rumble because I think since seeing it through the Beyond the Mat context its uncomfortable to watch. Really puts over that they go out there and legit put it all on the line for the fans entertainment.

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Re: Almost 20 years since Beyond the Mat came out

Post by Bandit » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:52 pm

WWE and Rock didn't think about it because of Foley's reputation. They didn't think that he'd been doing that stuff for 10 years and that no matter how tough you are or how thick your skull is everyone has a limit. Like Mark Hunt in MMA. For over a decade he could take any beating and even Cro Cop couldn't knock him down with his brutal head kicks. But now he gets knocked out for a lot less and talks about memory loss. Foley was the same way and that match was his turning point.

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Re: Almost 20 years since Beyond the Mat came out

Post by Big Boss Man » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:48 am

Yea that's true. I think Terry Funk said back in the 90s Mick got lost driving on his way home or couldn't remember where he lived which is worrisome. I'm actually surprised that he hasn't got a CTE diagnosis. I mean with the amount of head trauma in the Rumble match with Rock and HITC when his head smashes on the canvas alone. Plus he took some bad bumps in WCW on the concrete etc.

Good comparison with Mark Hunt too. As you get older it's even worse to have head trauma which is likely why he can't absorb the blows the same way he used to. I think Daniel Bryan's working a really risk path coming back. I get he loves wrestling but if it risks your physical health and wellbeing it's time to stop.

If Mick had kept going at 110% with the headshots, falling off HITCs etc that would have sadly caused him a severe, even fatal injury I believe. The human body can't withstand that amount of punishment he put it through. He could have legit killed himself falling through the HITC when his head bounced off the canvas.

So it's a good thing the product was evolved with less of the extreme type stuff. But they still go all out, the girls are too, which is why they are getting just as beat up as the boys. I think Alexa might be out of Evolution due to concussion and she's had other injuries too. Paige had to retire way before her time with a neck injury, Nikki almost had to call it quits with her neck too so they are allputting themselves at considerable risk for a cheap pop. Sadly I think if they continue going all out they'll end up with CTE, permanent injuries etc and no one would want to see that.

I don't know if they have a concussion protocol similar to other sports but how many are going to say they feel off at risk of losing their spot. Are they really testing D-Bry after every match?. Because they need to. After what happened with Chris Benoit they did stop with the headshots etc but they are still doing high impact moves.

Plus they work a schedule which is hard to fully recover from, so you've likely got wrestlers out there wrestling with multiple concussions and not just in WWE. On the indies where they likely don't even implement the concussion protocol. I'm assuming they may do in Japan but a small time indie aren't going to be able to test folks.

So whilst the industry has changed in some good ways some things have stayed constant unfortunately. There's still no union &wrestlers are still independent contractors so that should have changed in almost 20 years. Relative to what they put their bodies through most aren't paid accordingly unless they are a top guy/girl. So it's still an industry that needs an overhaul & be brought into the 21st century. All WWE wrestlers should have health insurance at least because they are breaking their bodies down for WWE. Which can lead to drug dependencies, so you have them going through rehab. But it's no wonder they take pills because of how beat up their bodies are. But unless WWE take time off so they can recover fully then the vicious circle will continue.

Baseball, Soccer, Football, Hockey, Basketball etc all have breaks because the players need it to recover from injuries and/or just to recharge their batteries. There's none of that in wrestling. If there was there would be much less injuries, early retirements etc from happening. If they operated say similar to a TV series and had like WrestleMania as a season finale & come back again for say Sumnerslam that would give them time to also write better storylines, character development and more importantly give the wrestlers a much needed break.

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Re: Almost 20 years since Beyond the Mat came out

Post by Big Boss Man » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:58 am

I gave this another watch & yea on the normal cut you only see Droz come in and check on Mick. Vince gives a weird type reaction too where he's more concerned with the direction of the Mankind character than Mick Foley the person. Still tough to watch Micks wife & kids watch the match, they walk out on it and rightly so. Just brutal and I've seen CZW, FMW, IWA Japan etc matches but something about seeing it through that context adds an extra entire level of drama to it.

Man is the Jake stuff depressing, he's allegedly doing crack, indirectly talking about suicide with his Daughter, really messed up and it's sad to to see how far he fell. Kinda reminiscent of Randy the Ram type deal.

I like the Terry Funk story arc best. I've always been a fan of Terry's & he comes across as a really good guy. Him talking with Dennis Stamp is one of the best parts of BTM too. I think Terry's one of the guys who come across as a legit good person in the wrestling biz.

Vince comes across kinda weirdly in this but it's at the height of the Mr McMahon deal so it's sort of expected. He sorta puts on a tough guy type demeanour and it would have been more intriguing to have saw the real Vince McMahon. But from what I've read/heard over the years he does have a decent compassionate side to him too.

The ECW part with Paul E & co is entertaining also. Along with New Jack auditioning for a TV show. It's easy to see how the boys & the girls believed in him because he seems a really good motivator of people and was behind them 110%.

So yea if you haven't watched it for a long time I definitely recommend watching it again. Shame it wasn't longer and/or a sequel of sorts wasn't made like 10 years or so later checking up on everyone etc.

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Re: Almost 20 years since Beyond the Mat came out

Post by Bandit » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:47 am

It would be a happier movie besides checking up on Droz and Roland Alexander dying young. Jake is doing great, Terry finally retired for real and sold his ranch so he can just relax, Foley is doing better since losing weight and having back surgery he says made him feel 20 years younger, Vince beat WCW and now has more money than god, ECW closed but Heyman is happy with his new jobs, New Jack didn't ever get acting work but seems content in interviews, Michael Modest never made it but runs his own wrestling school.

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Re: Almost 20 years since Beyond the Mat came out

Post by Big Boss Man » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:49 pm

Yea definitely, apart from Droz & Roland sadly of course like you say. Mike Modest did work for NOAH though so he sorta made it too.

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