Wrestling questions thread

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Bandit
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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:19 am

Yeah, looking at it now it's fucking ridiculous and would never happen today. Brock would lay down for Finn Balor Sunday if Vince asks him with no argument. But Montreal was the last gasp of the kayfabe era.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:18 am

Yea definitely. Another interesting factor, in hindsight it created the Mr McMahon gimmick which turned the tide of the Monday Night Wars in the WWFs favour when Vince feuded with Stone Cold. Without Montreal, I doubt we'd have seen the "evil" Vince character.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:32 am

That's an interesting question. They did do the angle in September when Austin argued with Vince about his medical clearance and gave him the stunner. So that was probably laying the foundation. And he did do Mr. McMahon in 1993 for USWA. But Russo (for whatever his word is worth) said Vince never considered being a heel character until the fan backlash against him convinced him to make money off of it. He only wanted to be the announcer they didn't often acknowledge owned the company.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:30 am

Yea I forgot about when Vince did that in the USWA. "McMemphis" as its referred to. Most wrestling purists I assume back in the day disliked Vince for going national taking the best talent out of the territories and for the more cartoony type product, so you could say he was Mr McMahon back in the early/mid 80s. Also he came up with the Million Dollar Man gimmick for himself but gave it to Ted instead.

http://www.wrestlelist.com/ted-dibiase- ... onal-idea/

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:21 am

Been watching BTE and there's a bit where they are talking with Marty about going up to heavyweight in New Japan.

I'm assuming you go up in weight classes there as you get more established and that was originally in place for trainees from the NJPW dojo to aspire to as they'd be junior heavyweights when they started out. Although you have guys like Jushin Liger et al who competed in Best of Super Junior tournaments/Super J cup when they already established.

So maybe it's just down to weight classes thoughand if you 225lbs + you're classed as a heavyweight.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:34 pm

What talent(s) do you think would really give AEW an edge over WWE to become the #1 promotion and is there any booker, behind the scenes personnel etc who'd put them on the level too where they could compete with WWE like WCW did back in the day?.

Seeing Bisch in the other topic, got me thinking, could he still do what he did with WCW back in the day in signing Hulk, Macho et al today or is the industry as such that couldn't be done nowadays.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:02 pm

Nobody they'd ever realistically get. Brock, Cena, Daniel Bryan, AJ. But it won't happen because now WWE is in the WCW role of having unlimited money.

And they could never have a "Luger on Nitro" or Scott Hall debut shocker because the fans know everything now. So you'd just expect Ambrose to debut on TND, whereas even Vince himself was shocked to see Lex on Nitro.

The shock was a huge reason why Nitro beat Raw. By the time everyone had the internet stuff like Mike Awesome or Bam Bam debuting on Nitro or Benoit and Eddie on Raw everyone knew they'd be there so it wasn't big.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:44 am

Thanks, yea good point about how the internet, it essentially spoils any surprises nowadays. The Hardyz turning up a few Manias back was somewhat a legit surprise but no way the same level Lex and Razor were.

I think from the list of names, signing John Cena would be the Hogan equivalent. To get the guy who's synomous with the post Attitude era WWE would be huge. Plus you have a potential all star dream match with Cena vs Omega. Brock and AJ are all the same age as John Cena at 41, Daniel is 37 but he unfortunately has the concussion issues and although short term he'd give you a huge boost, you can't really plan long term.

Plus if you say put him up against any talent who works stiff that puts him at a further risk. As I imagine AEW will essentially be a US version of the New Japan product, which makes sense, since I think judging by the Q&A interview he did, Harold Meij is keeping an eye out for their product and how they present wrestling.

But if Daniel Bryan didn't have the concussion issues, him against Omega would be really something. Outside of the WWE realm, the top 3 I'd go for are: Ibushi, Naito and Okada. Jay White I think will only improve too so he's another I'd sign. He just needs something a bit extra to solidify himself as a heel.

Walking in Kennys footsteps would be tough for any wrestler so I think some of the criticisms I've read are kinda unfair. I think give him say 5 years max and he could easily position himself as the Ace for NJPW.

Outside of the pro wrestling realm, maybe if AEW brought in say Gronk, but he's likely headed to WWE, but I think if you got him to a half decent level in ring you could bring in some of the mainstream audience. Speaking of which they have Stephen Amell who they could get some mainstream press with. Idk if he's booked for DON like he was for All In, but you need someone with a certain level of mainstream interest to attract attention to your product, because there's so many more other options now with the internet, video games, YouTube, Netflix etc

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:02 am

Would it have been better for Cody, Kenny, Hangman and the Bucks to have stayed with ROH/New Japan and did All In as yearly special super show each year than start up AEW?. Since they had ROH, New Japan, Impact, NWA and top indie talent on the show.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:03 am

They had a once in a lifetime opportunity. A billionaire isn't ever going to come along again with this offer so it was worth the gamble. And so far it paid off. Double or Nothing did more than twice the buyrate of All In (which had ROH TV promotion.) Plus ROH is as big as Sinclair will pay for it. They don't have a Tony Khan who cares about it. If they did AEW wouldn't exist.

The thing is if AEW is a success then all of those people but those who want to stay in Japan like Okada and Ibushi will come. Impact is in shambles so those guys will walk once their deals end, and MLW can't afford to keep their top guys once their deals end. Plus you have Marty, Revival, Good Brothers, Sasha, Harry Smith, Pillman Jr. and others who are sure to come to AEW as soon as they can. In a way it's good because coming in slow means they will always freshen up the roster instead of burning out every match in a year.

So yes, they made the right choice.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:08 am

Thanks. I do think Tony is in it for the long haul, plus he's a huge wrestling fan which will only be a good thing for AEWs future. My only misgiving really is the fans might turn on them down the line and start complaining. They have a massive chance to be a genuine alternative to WWE but they have to be wise with how they plan long term and try not to appease the IWC too much because it could stop them branching out into the mainstream. Say John Cena wanted to go there to have a dream match with Kenny, some diehard fans would be against it, but that could really put them on the map.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:21 am

Yeah, they'll bitch about AEW because wrestling fans bitch about everything. But they will have good will as long as WWE sucks (and it probably will until Vince dies or hands over Creative to HHH.) But they knew they hit the plateau with what ROH would do for them and it was the right move to take this risk. ROH is owned by a company richer than the Khans. But they've never wanted to spend the money they could have. ROH to them is a cheap TV show that draws okay ratings. They could have thrown money around to lure big names and let them run on cable channels not owned by Sinclair, but they've always held off on expanding it because they've believed they'll buy a good cable channel one day (it was supposed to be WGN but that fell through) and ROH would be one of their flagship shows. Cody was smart enough to realize where they were at. TNT on Wednesday is better than a syndicated Saturday night show.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:47 am

Thanks. There's also the other aspect like when an underground group/rapper etc goes mainstream and the original fans move on because there's that weird notion that they sold out. I think the Elite guys have built up a ton of goodwill the fanbase but say they put the belts on themselves there will be critics. But they are the main draws outside of Jericho. I do think Chris will beat Hangman so he's champ going in to the TNT shows. Which makes sense since he has most crossover appeal, with Mox close behind.

The more I think about it does make the most sense going with Tony and starting AEW. If they had said no, then thats like tearing up a winning lottery ticket. If they find the right balance of old school JCP/WCCW/Mid South and the sports type presentation of New Japan then that will be really cool. They will need not a continous influx of talent but to freshen it up like youve mentioned. It seems NJ is loyal to ROH but I do think adding New Japan as a partner in terms of talent sharing would be huge. Then you have a bigger talent pool to use and you can continually have new guys come in. Plus do cross promotional supershows with dream matches.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Ocelot » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:25 pm

I'd like to see them form a trifecta working arrangement with NJPW and ROH. Their competition should be the WWE - even with all their problems, the WWE is a colossus and all the competition they need.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:11 pm

They did try that in the past with Pro Wrestling USA in the 1980s with the AWA, Crockett and some of the NWA member promotions to compete against Vince. I think if AEW is more like the old NWA in a sense that they are an umbrella organisation where they can use the best talents around the world to compete against WWE.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:25 pm

That only lasted a few months because too many egos were involved. And it would be the same today.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:52 am

Not sure who owns/owner the library but the early 90s there was some VHS releases of matches from what I read a long time ago were apparently from Pro Wrestling USA.



As the title of the Youtube vid indicates it Was called something else on the tapes and there's some of the matches which had no commentary.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:08 am

Jerry Jarrett probably owns it because he spearheaded the idea. And it was a good idea in theory, but you just can't have groups that work together at a national level, only a territories level. Territories worked because everyone got to be an equal on their own turf and then all get a vote on who the nationally recognized champions are. As soon as cable came in and JCP, AWA, Mid South, World Class, etc. were on national television it was the beginning of the end of the NWA.

ROH and New Japan work because ROH isn't trying to run shows in Japan and New Japan won't run on the American east coast without it being an ROH co-promotion. So that's pretty much a territories formula. ROH is giving them the west coast because they don't run shows there. But AEW isn't going to do that, they're going to want to run the east coast because that's the area with the most wrestling fans in the US. And that's just one reason it won't work.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:44 am

Thanks. In the early 90s there was quite a few non WCW/WWF promotions on VHS to capitalise on the wrestling boom. One which I had a tape of was from a 1970s promotion (International Wrestling Association) out of Ohio. That was an early attempt to be the first national promotion. I believe Jim Crockett Promotions beat them in an anti trust lawsuit and they closed shop in 1978.

Some more about the promotion
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna ... on_(1970s)

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/201 ... 74716.html



I believe the tapes (there was I think 7 volumes) were of one of their weekly shows with a bonus match or two. This is the tape I had

Image


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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:33 pm

Something I thought of while reading excerpts from Seth Rollins shitting on everyone yesterday. This seems to have started when Heyman got more power in WWE. And Paul was known to have ECW wrestlers run down everyone in WWF and WCW as inferior hacks compared to ECW. So I wonder if Heyman is putting him up to this. It's so different than the way Cena and Roman ever conducted themselves. And Vince always had the policy "never acknowledge the competition". Which he only broke once when WCW was running them down every show and people thought they looked weak if they don't respond to Bischoff (and he made it look like Ted Turner was running WCW by himself in the Billionaire Ted skits.) So something changed.

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