Wrestling questions thread

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Big Boss Man
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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:02 am

Thanks. Didn't Vince sign Bret to a 20 year deal?. Maybe say a three year and an option for each year would have been a better option. There's a good Table for 3 with JBL, Bruce Pritchard and Eric Bischoff where they talk about where Eric really wanted to run Vince out of business etc. which made me think what if EB did win the war. Say they did and their business still tanked in 2001 what happens to pro wrestling then since WWF would be gone, ECW gone and then no WCW. Do the territories spring back up and wrestling become regional again?. Somehow I see Vince coming back hiring up the best talent for WWF 2.0

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:32 am

He was signed to a 20 year deal. But September 1996 and November 1997 were different. For one Bret was prone to injury when he came back, as he spent quite a bit of time in the Hart Foundation angle not wrestling on crutches. Vince made the comment on the Canadian show Off The Record something like "the Bret that left after Wrestlemania 12 wasn't the same Bret that came back 9 months later."

Also it was clear by May 1997 Steve Austin was the guy to carry the company so Bret was going to be pushed down the card which he'd be unhappy about. And Austin was not on a guaranteed deal like Bret was, he made what he earned for the company, so he was much more financially sound for the WWF. So Vince was going to be paying $1 million a year to a guy who wasn't even going to headline for him anymore and he didn't like it.

If WWF, WCW and ECW all closed then wrestling would probably go back to the cheaper regional way things were done before 1984. Vince may be back running just the east coast like his father, Eric was wanting WCW to be centered in the west coast by moving to Nevada from Georgia, and maybe Paul Heyman would have taken Terry Funk's advice and moved ECW to Texas and he'd run the south. Who knows. Or maybe Hogan could convince some network to take another chance on wrestling. Or maybe TNA would have formed and been #1.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:43 am

I thought it was 20 years, thanks. Something like in the latter part of the deal he would go into management etc when he retired. I guess in a role like Gorilla had?. So he would had it played out right if it was signed in 97 be under contract til 2017. A $20m guaranteed deal even by those standards for not your top star granted but still a big star seems not a bad deal. However say when Hitman retired they should have adjusted the deal accordingly. But knowing what was to come woth the Attitude Era I wonder whether Bret would have vetoed some things so they didn't damage his image.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:09 am

I think the back end of the deal was that Bret was going to run the Canadian office like Jack Tunney did, and the Hart Dungeon would be a training facility he'd oversee like the Funkin' Dojo was with Dory Jr.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:40 am

Yea that would make sense, thanks.

I know business was down in the US at the time but when the WWF got really big in the UK did it boost business at all?. I think the run here lasted something like 1990-1993. They had a show air live on Sky One in 1989 but I think its peak year was 1992 with Summerslam.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:49 am

They didn't make the same amount of money overseas because the TV deals weren't worth as much and the PPV was different. But with house shows they made money, which is why they were in Europe constantly in 1995.

And like you were saying WCW was on network television in 1993 in the UK, but WCW was still in debt. Whereas if they had a US network TV deal they'd be set financially.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:40 pm

Thanks. Yea WCW, to my knowledge, started on ITV from around 1990 time. They moved it to Saturday afternoons in 1992 then put it back in the early morning "Night time" schedule. Last time they showed it I believe was 1994 (Disney tapings). Which ironically was when Hogan came in. ITV showed Rock & Wrestling in like 91 or 92 if I'm correct. WWF only very briefly was on World of Sport (ITV) a few times. That was around 86 or 87 (I think). B-Sky-B started up in the late 80s and WWF was on there then. I think on one ad they mention WrestleMania V so 1989 must have been when it started on there. I have read its earlier than that & its 1985
I began watching WWF as it was then just before WrestleMania (the first one didn't have a number) on Sky TV through our new cable TV system. I was also able to watch NWA (I think it was JCP) on a channel called Screen Sports through the same platform. It was so different to the British wrestling that was shown on World of Sport, Saturday lunchtimes, which despite occasionally showing quality workers such as Dave 'Fit' Finlay or Mark 'Rollerball' Rocco was usually headlined by the likes of Big Daddy one of the worst wrestlers of all time.

My friends and I would gather round the TV cheering our favourites and booing the wrestlers we didn't like. Wrestlers such as Ric Flair and Roddy Piper got as many cheers as the likes oh Hulk Hogan and Dusty Rhodes from us.

One of the biggest highlights for me was when Sky broadcast WrestleMania 3 live, which was the first time they had broadcast wrestling live rather than a couple of weeks after the event was shown in the States.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:20 pm

Did they ever report the findings of whether Chyna had CTE?

https://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/26/heal ... index.html

Which got me thinking have any women's wrestlers reported any CTE type symptom(s). I think Torrie Wilson said a while back she suffered with depression which is often symptomatic of CTE. Quite a few years ago Stacy Keibler had a Grand mal seizure but this was after DWTS so it could have been a result of too much over exertion of the body. But again seizures are strongly linked to CTE. I'm most likely reading between the lines but with the bumps the ladies take today they are putting themselves at further risks than Stacy and Torrie did since their ring time was fairly limited.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:59 pm

I doubt she did. Chyna's issues were probably genetic because she had two parents with mental illnesses and I believe said was sexually assaulted as a teen.

And Keibler definitely didn't because she barely did anything. Her biggest bump was probably taking a stunner from Austin which is safe. Her seizure was probably being overworked while not eating enough which put too much stress on the body.

As you said most of the women didn't do enough to get concussions besides All Japan women who haven't reported issues. But yes, the women today will absolutely be at risk. Although they do work safer than the men. The main problem looks like Sasha is going to need a neck fusion before she's 40.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:17 am

OK Thanks. Ashley Massaro joined the concussion lawsuit against WWE https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2016 ... story.html

I can't recall her taking any big bumps either. Apparently Kaitlyn, AJ, Alicia, Summer, Tamina and Paige all have had reported concussions. Thought I read Stacy said she's had a couple of concussions and one whilst training in the Power Plant. Yea I agree today's wrestlers with their more high impact style are at higher risk but when you look back at the Ruthless Aggression matches they were still throwing themselves around and taking back bumps where they could hit their head on the canvas. Found these article which looks at concussions

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -suggests/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wo ... -than-men/

Going back to Chyna I can't find any reported findings so I assume they didn't find evidence of CTE in her brain. Or the info has been kept quiet.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:54 am

If women get concussions from the little-bumping style they worked in WWE prior to 2014 then it's not safe for women to be wrestling.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:22 pm

Was watching some of the Undertaker "Fab 4" interview yesterday and it was a weird mix of Kayfabe and reality like referring to Diesel as Kevin Nash etc. but staying in gimmick throughout. What was the story behind the interviews was it the WWFs version of RF Video shoots?. One of the best kayfabe type interviews I've seen is one about Kendo Nagasaki where he's in gimmick throughout but strangely in this instance it works.


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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:51 pm

Those weren't shown in the US, they were exclusive to Sky Sports. So I don't know anything about thrm.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:35 pm

I didn't know that, thanks. Thought they were a special they did for Coliseum video.

After the Rock & Wrestling boom when did wrestling start to decline in mainstream popularity in the US?. I'm assuming early 1990s when it started being popular in the UK.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:57 pm

I was renting every Coliseum Video release still back then and never saw it.

As for the popularity drop, I'd say 1991. People hating the Slaughter/Hogan angle started it, and then a few months later the scandals with Zahorian and Terry Garvin came out. And 1992 it hit bottom.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:46 am

Thanks. Could have been a Silvervision exclusive but they'd usually just license the US Coliseum tapes

Image

In hindsight the Sarge/Hulk angle did go too far. Didnt they want to burn the Stars and Stripes but wisely settled on burning Hogans top instead?. That would have crossed the line even more. I heard Sgt Slaughter received death threats etc so doing that would have put him at considerable risk. In War time (although the Gulf War ended before WMVII) this isn't something family orientated sports entertainment should have gone anywhere near. Plus you turn Sarge with the GI Joe connection heel?. Difficult to fathom the reasoning behind that idea. If anything you have a show of support to the troops since wrestling is essentially a form of escapism. So that angle never sat well with me. I can see why fans started to tune out plus Hulk was starting to be stale, Warrior in hindsight wasn't the big breakout star they hoped, Macho was winding down etc. Plus like you said the steroid trial (HH lying on Arsenio) and sex abuse scandal all played a part too.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:45 pm

Was thinking how come John Morrison hasn't ever gone back to WWE. I know he had a lot of heat because of Melina but they aren't together now. Plus he's buddies with The Miz so he could put in a good word for him. Unless he's happy on the indie circuit I guess.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:26 pm

He was unhappy for reasons other than Melina. MNM had had heat with the office since Wrestlemania 23 when their match was taken off the show and they reacted badly. Then Morrison acted like an asshole to Trish at Wrestlemania 27 because he was mad they brought her back for the Snooki match instead of giving the spot to Melina. Apparently Vince buried him in front of people for it and his days were numbered and he left at the end of the year.

He's said he doesn't miss WWE because he wanted more control over his career and matches.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:59 pm

Interesting, thanks. He's probably making a good level on the indies too on a lesser schedule.

Speaking of Trish, who came up with the angle of her being degraded & barking like a dog. Seemed really weird even during that time in the Attitude Era. That was one of those change the channel type moments and uncomfortable to watch. I've never really heard anyone speak about it since so was it like Vince subliminally chewing out his Mom, did Trish have heat and they were putting her in her place or was it just randomly thought up. Can't see how and why she agreed to it,wouldn't have blamed her if Trish walked out when they pitched the angle.


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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:34 pm

Trish didn't have heat. They thought the angle was ok because she turned on him at WM17.

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