The Classic Wrestling Thread

[Bandit]

It's the strength from all of that karate. Or jerking off while he watched his wife have sex with Gold Club strippers.

[Bandit]

[Big Boss Man]

I wonder how far Eric Bischoff could have taken WCW under Fusinet. In 2001 you had ECW out of the picture, WWF were leading up to arguably one of their best Manias in X7. Then by 2002 you had the Invasion be a huge misstep and WWEs popularity begin to decline. So that year 2001 was a real pivotal year. Say Bischoff bought ECW and deactivated it and had Paul run it with solid financial backing you could have had EcW vs WCW or let them both co exist. However Paul E jumped to the WWF so it's unlikely that scenario would have played out. But unless Eric brought back Hogan, Goldberg et al or he had some sort of master plan I don't see a New Blood vs Millionaires club be a must see. Unless he focused on the crusierweights and built the show around them. But I think a Bischoff run WCW would be Hulk and friends 2.0 more like the XWF talent wise with Hulk, Nastys, Quake, Typhoon, Brutus et al.

[Bandit]

The thing was he was always going to bring back Hogan (and possibly Nash) as soon as he could afford to pay him again. So even if Heyman booked, Ultimo Dragon was the top agent like Eric planned, and they listened to fans, eventually Hogan was coming back and WCW would be right back to where they were.

[Big Boss Man]

Yea that's the thing, he was loyal to Hulk et al and if someone they hit on a winning formula with the crusierweights he'd bring back a new nWo faction and have any star(s) they've made job to Hogan and his buddies. Really that time frame was like a super rare case of lightning striking twice. You had the Rock and Wrestling boom and then the Monday Night Wars. I highly doubt neither boom periods will be repeated. I think second time the WWF were lucky they could borrow from Paul E to remix the Extreme stuff into the Attitude Era and with WCW you had the UWFi/NJPW stuff. So both cases they "borrowed" ideas. Now say they had the NXT guys invade the main roster it would be seen as rehash but back then when you had Razor turn up on Nitro that was huge back then. So going back to 2001 WCW I think he'd have to go all in on the cruisers as the WWF lite stuff they were doing never worked. Unless he went back to like a Bill Watts type pro wrestling product ala early 1990s WCW. Although a wrasslin show would see like 20-30 years out of date compared to the WWF. So really I think if the Fusinet deal did come to fruition it would maybe keep WCW around but they'd be treading water like Impact is now. Unless he managed to move into like a worked shoot UWFi product and tie in with the forthcoming UFC boom. But it's highly unlikely Dana and the Ferittas would have associated with a worked promotion.

[Bandit]

Now say they had the NXT guys invade the main roster it would be seen as rehash but back then when you had Razor turn up on Nitro that was huge back then.

Another reason that worked so well was because it was right before the internet was in every home. I started getting online regularly a few months after Bash at the Beach, so I was legitimately shocked to see Scott Hall on Nitro since I assumed he wasn't on Raw for a month because he was injured, and didn't see the Hogan turn coming. But you could never have a surprise like that again. People would know Scott signed his deal immediately and it would be leaked Bischoff asked Hogan to turn (I think Meltzer did report that, but he didn't have the readership he has now.)

[Big Boss Man]

Yea that's true. The only other real surprise of the internet era so to speak was Kurt turning up at TNA but I'd imagine if any surprise angle was going to happen someone would leak it to Dave. In some ways the internet is great for inside knowledge, the Network, YouTube etc but on the other hand some stuff would be so much better if it wasn't spoiled.

[Bandit]

Angle going wasn't a surprise. He was fired, did 90 days no compete, then had the "It's Damn Real" video air on Impact.

Raven coming in in 2003 was a little bit of a surprise, because he turned down the 90 days of pay deal to immediately do a run in at a weekly TNA PPV. But he couldn't get the magic back he had for his ECW return. Because he left WCW as a star but in WWE at the end he was only on Heat and Velocity.

[Big Boss Man]

From what I remember Kurt turning up in TNA wasn't really 100% expected. He was let go because he was so broken down according to WWE and had other issues and I think Meltz was saying or I read/heard he was in such a bad way he should quit the biz. I also think the Kurt vid was first played before he butted Joe and busted him open. IIRC we got Impact here at the time and there was no Kurt Angle is coming type vids. Plus him turning up got a massive pop like a legit surprise. But maybe if you put the 90 days no compete etc in the equation Kurt turning up was kinda expected. Also at the time his debut was like a big deal online too as the general consensus was Kurt was in a bad way health wise.

[Bandit]

Angle wrestled his last match at an ECW taping on August 8, against Sabu.[97] Angle then went on to sign a contract with Total Nonstop Action Wrestling (TNA). The new signing was viewed by some as a promotion not having concern for the health of a wrestler.[98] On September 24, 2006, during the closing segment of No Surrender, TNA President Dixie Carter announced that TNA had signed Angle to a contract, with Jim Cornette introducing video footage of Angle training in a six-sided TNA ring.[99]

Angle made his TNA debut on October 19 as a face, confronting Samoa Joe after Joe refused to relinquish the NWA World Heavyweight Championship belt that, according to the storyline, he had stolen from Jeff Jarrett.[101] The two men ended up fighting while Jarrett took the title back.

So he had nearly a month between the announcement and headbutting Joe.

As far as the Meltzer report, there was question whether TNA would want to take the risk of signing him if he was so bad off WWE was convinced he was going to OD on Vicodin and alcohol and whether they'd be liable if he was injured wrestling. But he wasn't the first bad off person they had (namely Jeff Hardy) so it wasn't hugely unexpected at all they went through with it. Angle was always going to wrestle somewhere. New Japan had interest in him as well.

[Bandit]

I started watching 1997 ECW shows. Goddamn Terry Funk was a great promo in the lead up to Barely Legal, especially the promo where he visited his father's grave was incredible. That year he never got thought of as up there with Austin, Flair or New Jack as a promo, but he should have been.

[Big Boss Man]

Terry's an underrated promo guy. He had that believability too, plus you knew he could back up what he said. WWE, TNA et al sorely miss guys like the Funker, Jake, Cactus, Flair, Hot Rod (as a heel) et al who can cut money promos. That's really what they need to teach them in NXT and the development centre because the art of the promo is a lost art. If they let him adlib maybe Bray could be a better promo instead he kinda rambles. I don't think the PG framework is an excuse they did the Cobra angle with Jake/Macho in the cartoon era so giving Bray a live mic and put over the whole weirdness of his gimmick I think would add a ton to his gimmick.Then run with Broken Hardyz vs Wyatts

[Bandit]

I don't think Bray would benefit from doing his own promos. It's not a gimmick he relates to, it's an idea Dusty had that he gave him because he was there not doing anything. He had been wanting to do a Charles Manson gimmick for decades but it didn't fit into Crockett and WCW was too family friendly for it when he came back in 1991.

The writers love it because they can be creative, but he's never sold many matches beyond the Cena ones because he rarely says anything that matters. And certainly the Orton feud is Wrestlecrap. I'm not saying he isn't over, but he's over in a "that's interesting" sense and not a "I need to buy a ticket to see the Wyatts" way.

[Bandit]

"Russo wanted to put Val Venis in DX, but we said no. We stuck to our guns because he wasn't right for DX. So, for Bullet Club, if New Japan or Ring of Honor wants Bullet Club to do something they don't want to do, Bullet Club needs to remember this is their creation and their baby. Stick to your guns. If you feel like someone is not right, then don't let it be done."

Yeah, that wasn't going to work. DX was good because people knew they were all friends in real life so they had great chemistry. They had nothing in common with Sean Morley. Especially if he was doing the porno gimmick.

[Bandit]

Meltzer said something interesting.

In 2004 Ted Turner looked at the cost of opening a new promotion booked by Jim Barnett. He didn't think it was worth the money in the end. And Barnett died 6 months later anyway.

I always thought WCW turned him off of wrestling forever.

But it wouldn't have worked. Barnett was great, but he was 80 so he'd be too out of touch to compete with WWE, that was still good in 2004 and would have been motivated to be better. Vince would have been fired up to fight his imaginary arch nemesis again.

[Big Boss Man]

I think by 2004 the ship had sailed unfortunately and business was down. Ted buying into the UFC would have been much wiser. 2004 would have predated the Bonner/Griffin fight which was a massive game changer for the UFC plus he could maybe get them on TNT/TBS. The success of the UFC et al is essentially the Attitude Era for the 18-34 male demographic and unlike pro wrestling the product isn't worked so you see two guys like DC and Bones who legit hate each other you will get to see a real fight. The UFC are essentially out pro wrestling the WWE. A guy like Conor who can cut money promos, real storylines like for example the current TUF coaches and real fights that the audience can buy into. Plus they bought the UFC for like $4Bn a year or so ago so say Ted Turner had a stake in it he'd have a made huge profit like the Ferrita brothers did.

[Dr. Zoidberg]

[Dr. Zoidberg]

[Bandit]

And next week will be the 20th anniversary of the 1997 BATB. It's amazing to think Rodman was a bigger star then than Mr. T was at Wrestlemania 1. But yet him being there for 3 years meant absolutely nothing for WCW but Mr. T meant everything for the WWF.

[Big Boss Man]

I think with T you brought in a more mainstream demographic, ie kids and their parents who watched the A Team and weren't wrestling fans but tuned in to see Mr T. There was a couple of cross promotional appearances by Hulk on the A Team too.

Dennis Rodman was a big star but he didn't have the same family friendly appeal T had. He was the bad boy of the NBA ( and of course part of the Pistons "Bad Boys" team) so he didn't have the draw that T had. Say it was MJ that would have been a massive deal. Because he appealed to everyone across the board. Also factor in this was WCW and they spent millions on Master P, Kiss, Megadeth which equated to no real bump in ratings.