WWE Thread (Spoilers)

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Hawq
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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Hawq » Fri May 10, 2019 4:58 am

raw reaction

sound on clip may be low but Bart sums it up perfectly as it did bith suck & blow. Though I guess it was a little amusing to see that the cids in the Firefly Funhouse bit looked bored out of their minds neatly reflecting the audience

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Tue May 14, 2019 2:15 am


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Big Boss Man
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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Tue May 14, 2019 5:54 am


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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Tue May 14, 2019 6:21 am

Oh god.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Tue May 14, 2019 7:06 pm

The lost match doc about the Bret/Tom Magee match is worth checking out on the Network.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Tue May 14, 2019 9:35 pm

WWE doesn't understand what was interesting about the situation. It's not the match being forgotten, that's understandable. They simply didn't think a dark match with a guy they ended up doing nothing with was interesting, and they didn't think they needed to preserve a match with a future world champion losing to an unknown. It's what Bret did, why Bret went so far out of his way to help him (part of it was Tom briefly worked with Stampede), and how Vince could be so fooled on who made the match because he has a muscleman fetish (although obviously they'd never say that.)

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Tue May 14, 2019 10:47 pm



Oh boy.

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Big Boss Man
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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Wed May 15, 2019 4:01 am

Bandit wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:35 pm
WWE doesn't understand what was interesting about the situation. It's not the match being forgotten, that's understandable. They simply didn't think a dark match with a guy they ended up doing nothing with was interesting, and they didn't think they needed to preserve a match with a future world champion losing to an unknown. It's what Bret did, why Bret went so far out of his way to help him (part of it was Tom briefly worked with Stampede), and how Vince could be so fooled on who made the match because he has a muscleman fetish (although obviously they'd never say that.)
Yea definitely. I think Bret made Tom look good because he was trained at the Hart dungeon so he had that seal of approval. Magee I think had potential, but since say he was on the roster, I think he'd have been more a Jim Powers/Paul Roma type. But back in 1986 Hogan was far and away the top face on the roster. So they could have had him as the successor. But again, Bret was far ahead talent wise.

Had it not been the steroid scandal then I wonder whether Vince would have even went to Bret and Shawn. That forced his hand and I think since it's proved he still prefers the bigger guys to be the champion.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Wed May 15, 2019 5:10 am

I don't think he had any potential. He just wouldn't learn. Stu and Bruce Hart tried to teach him, and even though they produced dozens of all time greats Tom still sucked when he left Calgary. Then they sent him to All Japan where the best workers in the world were at the time, and he couldn't even have a good match against Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue, Misawa as Tiger Mask II, or Riki Choshu. That's like going to Oxford or Harvard and learning nothing. The thing was he didn't like wrestling so didn't care. Lex Luger gets that negative view, and it isn't true for him because Lex wasn't bad and even had runs where he was good. But Magee was everything they say about Luger. Magee should have been on American Gladiators instead.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Wed May 15, 2019 10:50 am

In a statement issued today, WWE responded to Lars Sullivan's past racist, homophobic, and offensive message board posts.

“WWE supports a culture of inclusion regardless of gender, race, religion or sexual orientation, and we are committed to embracing all individuals as demonstrated by the diversity of our employees, performers and fans worldwide," WWE's statement said.

"Dylan Miley (aka Lars Sullivan) will be fined $100,000 and required to complete sensitivity training for offensive commentary uncovered from his past. WWE will also facilitate meetings for Dylan with community organizations to foster further discussion around the power of social media and the impact of your words.”

Sullivan's offensive Bodybuilding.com forum posts were first uncovered in November 2018 and received renewed attention when compiled into a Reddit thread last week.

Last Friday, Sullivan apologized for the posts via a statement that was issued through WWE: “There is no excuse for the inappropriate remarks that I made years ago. They do not reflect my personal beliefs nor who I am today, and I apologize to anyone I offended.”

Prior to Sullivan's apology, Big E and Kalisto responded on Twitter when asked about Sullivan's posts. Big E wrote: "Many are aware. If true, he has to bear the albatross of being a bigot & working in a company that is now filled with minorities."

Kalisto wrote: "He just needs to get out of my way....I’m Latino...." Kalisto's tweet has since been deleted.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Wed May 15, 2019 5:34 pm

Bandit wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:10 am
I don't think he had any potential. He just wouldn't learn. Stu and Bruce Hart tried to teach him, and even though they produced dozens of all time greats Tom still sucked when he left Calgary. Then they sent him to All Japan where the best workers in the world were at the time, and he couldn't even have a good match against Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue, Misawa as Tiger Mask II, or Riki Choshu. That's like going to Oxford or Harvard and learning nothing. The thing was he didn't like wrestling so didn't care. Lex Luger gets that negative view, and it isn't true for him because Lex wasn't bad and even had runs where he was good. But Magee was everything they say about Luger. Magee should have been on American Gladiators instead.
Had he been more committed to learning, he had more potential in ring than say Warrior. He had a high flying style so he could have brought that style around in 1986. As for Japan, if he wasn't respectful to the business then they wouldn't go out of the way to not make him look good. With Bret, his role was to put over Tom Magee as a up and coming talent. This was earlier in his career too and say this was 96/97 and he was asked to make someone like Brakkus look good I don't think he'd have gone out of his way to do so. But maybe he would because he respected the business.

But Tom was picked out to be the next Hulk Hogan so if Hitman had deliberately stiffed him and made him look bad it could have cost Bret his job maybe. So essentially, Bret made Magee look like the next big thing so he's the unsung star of the story. I think having him go to All Japan with that level of talent back then was smart in one aspect but a misstep in the other.

Maybe have him build up his confidence on like Wrestling Challenge/Superstars would have been better because going to Japan back then you had to have that right type of hard hitting style. He seemed more showy/high flying compared to the traditional Kings Road style that All Japan had.

I think maybe Tom would have been more suited in World Class or JCP as the WWF was more slower paced back then and someone like Tom Magee doing flips, drop kicks etc wasn't the norm back then. So had he kept at it, we could have seen some better in ring matches. Say Magee v Savage, Magee v Rude etc.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Wed May 15, 2019 6:33 pm

Bandit wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:50 am
Dylan Miley (aka Lars Sullivan) will be fined $100,000
Wonder if they gave him a $100k raise at the same time?

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Wed May 15, 2019 9:56 pm

Dr. Zoidberg wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:33 pm
Bandit wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:50 am
Dylan Miley (aka Lars Sullivan) will be fined $100,000
Wonder if they gave him a $100k raise at the same time?
Double or nothing? You can double you're salary at WWE pal!

Image

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Wed May 15, 2019 10:19 pm

But Tom was picked out to be the next Hulk Hogan so if Hitman had deliberately stiffed him and made him look bad it could have cost Bret his job maybe
Vince didn't say he thought he could be a replacement for Hogan until after that match.
As for Japan, if he wasn't respectful to the business then they wouldn't go out of the way to not make him look good.
He was respected in Japan, because they love any accomplished athlete coming into the business and he was a champion powerlifter. Choshu actually asked to work with him even though he was the top star in the company and Magee was new because he thought he was going to be a North American superstar and he wanted to set up a feud with him for when he was. Choshu did pretty much what Bret did to cover him up, have him do his few spots and lots of flipping, so he wasn't trying to harm his career at all.
I think maybe Tom would have been more suited in World Class or JCP as the WWF was more slower paced back then and someone like Tom Magee doing flips, drop kicks etc wasn't the norm back then
Crockett was the good worker's territory, so he wouldn't have fit in there, and World Class was so stiff he'd have looked like a joke there since one of the reasons why he was so bad was because of how light everything he did was. WWF was the only place he could have made it because they'd excuse a lot if you had a body like Tom's and they put the least emphasis on in ring ability. Also they didn't want anyone who had a body better than Kerry in World Class according to Tony Atlas.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Wed May 15, 2019 10:20 pm

Big Boss Man wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:56 pm
Dr. Zoidberg wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:33 pm
Bandit wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:50 am
Dylan Miley (aka Lars Sullivan) will be fined $100,000
Wonder if they gave him a $100k raise at the same time?
Double or nothing? You can double you're salary at WWE pal!

Image
Vince looks like Jimmy Fallon's grandfather now for some reason.

Image

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Big Boss Man » Thu May 16, 2019 12:45 am


He received acclaim after one of his first matches, when on February 22, 1986 in the main event of a major All Japan Pro Wrestling show, where he took on Riki Choshu. Dave Meltzer of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter said of his first match: "He was the greatest combination of strength and agility the business had ever seen".
High praise from Dave. So how come Tom Magee never really got a chance?. I think mainly because Vince changed his mind like you say and Warrior came in around June of 1987 so he essentially took his spot. Plus this page here

http://prowresblog.blogspot.com/2012/04 ... e.html?m=1

Says Tom mostly wrestled Terry Gibbs as part of the C level house shows the WWF were running back in the day. Had he wrestled Bret more often or they had short tours to AJPW to work Choshu and guys who wanted to help him out his experience level would have risen. So going back to my original point, a guy who can flip and do athletic moves had more potential than the usual big/bodybuilder type style that Hogan and Warrior worked.

For example put Tom Magee against Rick Rude in that feud they had in 1989 and they'd have been some solid matches, since Rick was underrated I think as a worker and carried Warrior to some good matches. Then you could have went Magee v Hogan for Mania VI to pass the torch then there'd have been less reliance to bring Hulk back in after he was doing movies etc.

I think Vince should have gone with Bret as champion sooner but it was really the steroid scandal which made them have to switch gears and go for guys with more natural looking physiques.

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Thu May 16, 2019 12:53 am



Hubba hubba! :heyhey:

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Thu May 16, 2019 1:05 am

Triple H is reportedly “the most frustrated person” in WWE

The stories we’ve heard about people being frustrated with Vince McMahon have been confirmed by many people in the company and it’s no secret that wrestlers are looking at their options when their contracts expire.

In the last week, Triple H seemed to acknowledge to the fans that he knows change is needed but there’s not much he can do until Vince McMahon decides to step aside. Triple H recently liked and then unliked these two fan tweets:





Some of the usual stories (and some new ones) were confirmed on Wade Keller’s Pro Wrestling Post-Show when a close friend of three WWE writers called into his show after Monday Night Raw. It’s very clear that the buck stops with Vince McMahon and it doesn’t look like real change is coming anytime soon.

Here are things said on the podcast by the close friend of three current WWE writers:

– WWE’s problems are not the fault of the writers. “No one should rip on WWE creative. They have some of the most brilliant, unbelievable cool ideas that I’ve ever heard…” He was told, “We’re writing for an audience of one and never forget that [and if not] you’re out of here.”

– “The most frustrated person in the back every single night is Triple H. He’ll always take, especially the NXT guys, under his wing. It looks like he’s consoling them. It looks so much like he was the most frustrated person in the building every single night.”

– The Wild Card Rule was not in the script on the morning of the show.

– The Superstar Shake-Up changed week to week and it didn’t pan out how it was originally laid out months prior. Everything changed because Vince just decided to change it.

– He talked about the turnover with so many backstage people quitting or being fired.

– SmackDown and Raw writing teams are the same for both shows. They used to be separate but that changed recently after the Shake-Up.

– The caller emphasized that the problems in WWE are not creative’s fault and Vince McMahon is the one person who deserves the blame.

– Vince wants suggestions from everyone but it never gets on TV. 99 out of 100 times you can come up with an idea for Vince and it won’t be used.

– The entire creative team has pitched to have Raw and SmackDown look completely different with different production, a different way of shooting things, etc. and McMahon shoots it down.

– Vince McMahon doesn’t keep track of what is going on with NXT. He “maybe” watches Takeover shows.

– The writers say he just watches WWE and works out and is not aware of things going on in the real world.

– The writers say there is no chance of Vince stepping down.

– Dana Brooke has been the hardest worker for the last 3 years. She goes to the Performance Center, she shows up early and helps set up the ring and she gets in the ring so she can get better. Creative will pitch something for her and she gets nothing up until recently with MITB.

– The caller offered to tell Wade Keller off the air of some cool storylines that were pitched and never used.

– The writer he talked to said, “we’re all working for Dana Warrior and it’s really awkward.”

– The WWE-Fox contract prohibits Fox from moving the show to FS1 even if the ratings drop.

– One writer is very close to quitting because he is so “unbelievably unhappy” and many of the writers are paranoid and think they are close to being fired.

– “It’s such a toxic atmosphere and it’s all because of one person.”

– When Neville walked out, there was a crazy shouting match and he flipped out on Vince McMahon and that was the last time they saw him. The writers praised Neville for being so easy to work with.

– Ideas never pan out as originally planned because writers will come up with stuff and then Vince loses interest after a week or two. He used Mojo Rawley as an example.

– The money is good and it’s a dream job for many writers but it gets frustrating. The talent is very unhappy and people are trying to get out of their contracts.

– The writers say Bruce Prichard is a pleasure to work with. “He’s a funny guy and a pleasure to work with but he’s not getting through to Vince either.”

– Shane McMahon, Triple H and Stephanie McMahon have tried to talk to Vince but it hasn’t worked.

– The people on the writing staff listens to podcasts and they hear fans bashing them. “It breaks their heart,” he said.

– Vince is in the announcer’s ear “to a sentence” and he gets on them for tiny mistakes.

– On Sami Zayn: “That’s not Sami Zayn’s promos. That’s Vince McMahon talking through Sami Zayn.”

– There are 37 total writers and they are now working on both shows.

– NBCUniversal and FOX both want the top stars.

– Andrade went into Vince’s office and asked for a legit push. Vince looked at him and said, “learn some English and get back to me.” Andrade spoke some English last week and he’s been taking English lessons.

– The Firefly Fun House stuff is all Bray Wyatt’s idea. Bray is described is an “absolute genius” and he helps other wrestlers with their promos. “He’s one of the best guys in the locker room.”

– The writers he talked to say they loved when there was a real brand split.

– He mentioned The Revival/Usos storyline being done because Vince just thinks its funny.

– Some of the writers think Road Dogg will eventually end up in AEW. (Note: Road Dogg is currently on hiatus and there’s no word on when he will be back or what he would be doing if he returns).

https://wrestlingnews.co/wwe-news/tripl ... on-in-wwe/

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Thu May 16, 2019 1:28 am

High praise from Dave. So how come Tom Magee never really got a chance?. I think mainly because Vince changed his mind like you say and Warrior came in around June of 1987 so he essentially took his spot. Plus this page here
He looked good because he was wrestling two of the best wrestlers of all time. Like the "Flair could have a match with a broomstick" saying, so could Bret and Choshu. Everything he did in those matches besides his flips sucked.

He had agility and strength, but that doesn't mean you'd be a good wrestler. CM Punk is an awful athlete but he was great. Lots of football players who were great athletes tried to become wrestlers and couldn't do it. Athleticism is only part of it since wrestling is an art form and not a sport. If you get an incredible athlete who can work like Brock Lesnar it's rare. Otherwise the WWE roster would have 30 Brocks.

The thing is getting experience with the best back then meant either word gets out your top guys are doing jobs to a guy they won't even put on TV or word gets out Magee is a jobber so when they finally put him on TV and give him a superstar push people will say "Isn't that the guy who was losing to everybody he's beating now?" It was a different business then when wins and losses were taken very seriously. So back then you either worked the territories to learn. And besides Japan and Stampede those were all Vince's competition, so he's not going to hand over "the next Hogan" to World Class or Crockett to teach. Or you had to be good coming in. And I don't know what more you could do to be good coming in than being trained by the Harts and then wrestling the best of the best in All Japan. So realistically he had every chance available and blew it. If he didn't care to learn over his 4 years in the business what did you want Vince to do?

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Re: WWE Thread (Spoilers)

Post by Bandit » Thu May 16, 2019 2:01 am

https://www.spreaker.com/user/pwtorch/20190514wkpwp-raw call is 15 minutes in. The guy's voice sounds like Rob Naylor.
"They have some of the most brilliant, unbelievable cool ideas that I’ve ever heard"
They all say that and when they tell them on podcasts after they leave they aren't nearly as good as they think.
The Firefly Fun House stuff is all Bray Wyatt’s idea. Bray is described is an “absolute genius”
Exhibit A.

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