Wrestling questions thread

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Bandit
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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:19 am

I give them a break on that. Those poor guys were beat to shit having to work 300 dates a year. So nobody was thinking about a 5 star match like Ric. Plus it didn't really matter in the 80s since only a tiny handful of people were trading for VHS camcorder tapes of house shows. So it was new to all of the fans. And just seeing stars live was enough back then.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Ocelot » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:35 am

Multiple wrestlers have talked about working three shows a day during a boom period. I cannot even fucking fathom that.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:03 am

Cocaine is a helluva drug.

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Big Boss Man
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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:41 am

If there was no Monday Night Wars boom what would the wrestling landscape look like today?. By 1995 I think WWFs business was way down and WCW was probably just breaking even or making a small profit so could they survived when wrestling was declining in popularity?. Does the boom still happen when they catch on with what ECW are doing or does Ted say enough is enough and sells WCW and Vince goes back to a pre-84/85 type WWF in terms of their level of popularity where only the diehards watch.

The whole Monday Night Wars eras significance is bigger than it's thought of. They are still really riding that wave although it's diminished considerably to what it was. But there's fans still sticking around who first watched back then and WWE still has somewhat of a buzz because of that era too. If there was no War with WCW and ECW didn't catch on I don't think WWE would have closed shop totally but when you consider how other promotions did it makes you wonder what wrestling in 2019 would be like without that boom period.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:42 am

Ratings were good enough before September 1995 for both companies to have kept their TV deals. At least until AOL and Time Warner merged, then WCW still may have been dropped. But then again, WCW may have survived post-2001 because they wouldn't have been losing $80 million without the MNW. Maybe WCW just losing $5 million but still bringing in 2 million viewers or more a week for WCW Saturday Night would have been worth it to TBS.

Could there still have been a boom? It depends on what they did. If WCW still does the nWo angle on WCW Saturday Night and Austin is still pushed like he was, yes. If Vince was more conservative and decided to go with one of the bigger guys and Hall and Nash don't jump because WCW isn't paying them that amount of money without the MNW then no.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Ocelot » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:49 am

Someone would have found a way to engineer a boon down the line. Wrestling is, has been, and will always be cyclical, and in the late nineties it was ripe to come out of a down period. I think if the Monday Night War boom hadn't happened, we would have merely seen some kind of internet-focused boom in the early 2000's that would have amounted to much the same thing.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:18 pm

We're 11 months in with AEW, but I was wondering, where would The Elite be (in terms of their progress over the 11 months, roster spot, storylines etc) had they signed with WWE instead?.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Dr. Zoidberg » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:30 pm

They would be mid-carders on 205 Live, except for Kenny, who would be in a love triangle with Tamina Snuka & Nia Jax on Raw.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:50 pm

They'd be Nexus 2.0 and Kenny would be doing jobs to The Fiend this month.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:23 pm

When AJ Styles came in I think they treated him with a certain level of respect and made him seem like a big deal. But with Kenny, they could have done the same, but I think he's like Shinsuke Nakamura where only some fans get his gimmick and he'd have been treated the same way.

Cody I think they'd give him the Stardust gimmick again by now. It's funny because on AEW he's arguably the most over guy they have, but because they are all in with Corbin and Seth he would treading water in the mid card.

Hangman would get a repackage as "Hangman" wouldn't fit in with the whole PG framework. He'd likely be given a Dean Douglas/teacher type gimmick. I also think they'd put him in NXT.

Nick and Matt vs The Revival would have been the most likely first match they had but after that initial buzz they could either have them beat the other top teams - Usos et al or they have them just join up with The OC (perhaps with Kenny too) to have a Bullet Club type faction. Which if they booked them right could have been good.

From what I gather though Hunter wanted all the guys and was offering them really good money so if there were seen as important high profile signings then logic suggests by now The Bucks would be holding either the Raw or SmackDown tag titles, Hangman is NXT champ, Cody is US or IC champ and Kenny holds one of the World titles.

Plus if say Triple H had more creative control, I think we'd have seen some really good to great matches - Styles v Omega at Mania, Cena v Omega, Revival v Bucks, Usos v Bucks to name a few and they'd likely all be MOTY contenders.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:57 am

I was watching the CVV interview with Justin Credible and he talks about one of his best matches was at ECW Heatwave '97. I don't think this was available on VHS and it's not on the WWE Network. Was there any reason(s) why they made it an internet only PPV and didn't put it out on regular PPV and sell it on VHS?. I think four of the matches aired on ECW TV, so I assume the event was recorded.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:56 am

Heyman really wanted to make the internet PPV format work, but the technology just wasn't there. So he was very ahead of his time, but paying money to see choppy grainy video that freezes wasn't going to work. It's why WCW only did audio PPVs around that same time.

I don't know why it isn't on WWE Network or was sold. Maybe they had an exclusive rights deal with whatever company they used to put it on the internet. But I know they did show some of it on TV because I remember that was the Sandman, Dreamer and Rick Rude vs Lawler, RVD and Sabu match where Rude turned heel.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:23 am

OK thanks. Justin said it was the best ECW PPV in his opinion and as Rick Rude & Jerry Lawler are on the card you'd think WWE would have added it to the Network. So maybe a complete broadcast quality copy doesn't exist, although they've got other incomplete shows on the Network so could be down to rights like you've said.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:06 am

It sounds like a good show. Taz vs Lance Storm was probably very good.

Of the matches aired on TV on July 21st 1997 (episode 222):

John Kronus vs Pablo Marquez

Terry Funk vs Shane Douglas

Dreamer, Sandman & Rude vs Lawler, RVD & Sabu (but Rude doesn't do anything because of his Lloyd's Of London deal.)

They had Hardcore Heaven 97 a month later on TV PPV and it was a terrible show.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:51 pm

I've been re-watching the Survivor Series 1988 & was wondering why did they do the double turn with Demolition & The Powers of Pain?. Logically it doesn't make much sense since Demo were WWF World tag champs so Mr Fuji didn't have no real logical reason to turn against them. I think post match interview he said something about "they didn't listen" but for him to turn for that still doesn't seem to make much sense. Had they lost the tag belts then the turn would have been more impactful I think.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:14 am

They saw money in Demolition as babyfaces selling merch. And they always got some cheers so they just went with it.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Ocelot » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:50 am

God I miss Demolition. I don't think it'd work nowadays but they were so far ahead of the curve in the WWE at the time. And now as an older wrestling fan with experience in the business, I appreciate how good Darsaw and Eadie were as workers.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Big Boss Man » Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:40 am

Thanks that makes sense. The Powers of Pain were getting big pops during the match so its a bit surprising they didn't get more behind them and give them a longer run as a babyface team.

Demo were definitely one of the top 5, arguably top 3 WWF tag teams of that time frame. That era had some very good teams - Demolition, Brain Busters, The Rockers, Hart Foundation, British Bulldogs, Fabulous Rougeau Brothers, Powers of Pain (although I believe the Bulldogs left the WWF before the 1989 Rumble). Had Vince managed to bring in the Road Warriors sooner and also The Midnight Express & The Rock and Roll Express the tag division would have been more stacked.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Bandit » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:37 am

Yes, but WWF being so merchandise-heavy even back then saw more ways to sell Demolition items than Powers of Pain. It wasn't that they weren't over as well. Big guys in make up who destroyed jobbers every week was an instant success in the 80s. Although Demolition were far more talented obviously.

And they were a weird team because it was a guy who was a good wrestler but not seen as a superstar paired with a guy everyone thought was a has-been from another era and they became massive superstars. Imagine if AEW teamed up QT Marshall with Tommy Dreamer or WWE teamed up Chad Gable and Steve Corino, put them in make up and they became the 2nd biggest money drawers in the promotion. It's funny when you think about it. It shouldn't have worked but it felt like they were bigger than Hogan in 1989, at least with the kids I knew who were nuts about Demolition.

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Re: Wrestling questions thread

Post by Ocelot » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:01 am

The right gimmick plus hard work and talent will make up for any deficiencies.

Something I wish people in the business would understand in 2020.

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